Game Officer harassment

[riverpirate]

I am not faulting Michelle for her part. Should those guy have been buttheads like that? No. Do I think ANY form of LEO should question a obviously printing individual ? Yes. My reasoning is if they are concealing a gun and do not have a LTCF they are commiting a crime. I conceal carry only , I do this by choice. If a LEO wants to ask to see my LTCF I have no problem with that because I know ive done nothing wrong. Again I fault Michelle in no way.
Now as far as Respecting the job they do. YES I respect the job, not always the person. LEO's/WCO's put their lives on the line to protect and serve and a majority of them are doing just that. I respect them for that. Doesnt mean I respect the individual just because of that , it means I respect the job they do. I have a few LEO's as friends , half of them do their best but they dont know all the laws , hell lawyers dont know all the laws and they live it. Most of them are just trying to do a job that they are underpaid for and out gunned at. I asked one the other day what the black stuff was on the gip of his glock. He told me hockey tape. I laughed and asked why. He said as a divorced father he cant afford to buy a grip for his gun and figured hokey tape would work for as little as he shoots it. These guys are just trying to make a paycheck like most of us and are in a constant learning phase. It is sometimes up to US as law abiding citizens to educate them about stuff ( firearm laws ) that they may not be 100% on. To do this sometimes we have to treat them with respect to earn theirs. This goes the same for WCO's they earn even less ( sometimes none ) and are out there doing a job most of us wounldnt want.

[thetruepyromaniak]

heres some good stuff.
http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/dat...37-12/497.html

§ 131.6. (c) Violations. A wildlife conservation officer may, subject to the limitations in subsections (a) and (b), act only in cases of violations of the following provisions:

(1) Title 18 of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes (relating to the Crimes code) including the following chapters:

(i) 9 Inchoate Crimes.

(ii) 25 Criminal Homicide.

(iii) 27 Assault.

(iv) 29 Kidnapping.

(v) 31 Sexual Offenses.

(vi) 33 Arson, Criminal Mischief and Other Property Destruction.

(vii) 35 Burglary and Other Criminal Intrusion, limited to §§ 3501, 3502 and 3503(a).

(viii) 37 Robbery.

(ix) 39 Theft and Related Offenses, limited to violations of §§ 3921, 3924, 3925, 3928 and 3929.

(x) 41 Forgery and Fraudulent Practices, limited to §§ 4104 and 4105.

(xi) 47 Bribery and Corrupt Influence.

(xii) 49 Falsification and Intimidation.

(xiii) 51 Obstructing Government Operations limited to §§ 5101, 5102, 5104, 5105, 5121, 5124 and 5125.

(xiv) 55 Riot, Disorderly Conduct and Related Offenses, limited to §§ 5501--5511 only.

(xv) 59 Public Indecency, limited to § 5901.

(xvi) 61 Firearms and Other Dangerous Articles.

(xvii) 63 Minors, limited to § 6308.

(xviii) 65 Nuisances

Disorderly Conduct and Related Offenses, Intimidation, Firearms and Other Dangerous Articles

[thetruepyromaniak]

A wildlife conservation officer shall arrest or take other appropriate enforcement action pursuant to the authority vested by section 901(a)(17) of the act only to the degree necessary to protect life and property in the following circumstances

(i) The offense occurs in the officer's presence.
.....Secure and maintain onsite information and evidence as deemed appropriate,

[Pa. Patriot]

Sorry, thetruepyromaniak. Those sections are under that which I posted.

The restriction is at the top, the stuff you posted does not contradict (a)(2), it is applicable only if (a)(2) is satisfied.

Here is the entire thing in one pice so others can follow along at home.

§ 131.6. Administration of police powers by wildlife conservation officers.

(a) General.

(1) Section 901(a)(17) of the act (relating to powers and duties of enforcement officers) authorizes wildlife conservation officers, when acting within the scope of their employment, to pursue, apprehend or arrest any individual suspected of violating any provision of 18 Pa.C.S. (relating to the Crimes Code) or any other offense classified as a misdemeanor or felony and, in addition, to serve and execute warrants and subpoenas for these offenses.

(2) For the purposes of enforcement of the authority granted by section 901(a)(17) of the act, ‘‘when acting within the scope of their employment’’ means that period of time that a wildlife conservation officer is currently engaged in any activity the officer is employed to perform at the time and places the officer is authorized to perform the activity.

(b) Procedures.

(1) A wildlife conservation officer shall arrest or take other appropriate enforcement action pursuant to the authority vested by section 901(a)(17) of the act only to the degree necessary to protect life and property in any one or more of the following circumstances:

(i) The offense occurs in the officer’s presence.

(ii) The offense occurs on lands or waters owned, leased or otherwise controlled by the Commission.

(iii) The offense arises out of Commission operations.

(iv) Another law enforcement agency has reasonably requested the assistance.

(2) A wildlife conservation officer who exercises any authority vested by section 901(a)(17) of the act shall do the following, without unreasonable delay:

(i) Notify the appropriate State or local law enforcement agency of the enforcement action.

(ii) Secure and maintain onsite information and evidence as deemed appropriate.

(iii) Transmit secured information and evidence to the appropriate State or local law enforcement agency for further investigation or prosecution, or both.

(iv) Prosecute violations, as may be reasonably necessary if the appropriate State or local law enforcement agency declines further action.

Authority

The provisions of this § 131.6 amended under the Game and Wildlife Code, 34 Pa.C.S. § § 322 and 901(a)(17).

Source

The provisions of this § 131.6 adopted May 3, 1991, effective July 1, 1991, 21 Pa.B. 2009; amended June 29, 2007, effective June 30, 2007, 37 Pa.B. 2947. Immediately preceding text appears at serial pages (319698) and (280057) to (280058).

Notes of Decisions

Scope of Employment

Game Commission officers were acting within the scope of their duty when they encountered the driver in a dump truck parked diagonally across a public highway and observed his colorable conduct, as they were en route on an official call at the time; furthermore, the officers were conscious of the limits of their authority and took care not to overstep those limits, where they did not arrest the driver, but merely detained him during an investigatory stop until the State Police arrived to administer sobriety testing and execute the resulting arrest. Commonwealth v. Schatzel, 724 A.2d 362 (Pa. Super. 1998), appeal denied 1999 Pa. LEXIS 2204 (Pa. July 26, 1999).

Where a wildlife conservation officer acting within the scope of his employment by driving to deposit a deer carcass to the game lands building encountered a vehicle ahead of him which had crossed the center line once by the time the officer reached the entrance to the game lands building, the officer did not possess sufficient information, while acting within the scope of his employment, to arrest the driver for driving under the influence, and the officer’s subsequent observations after following the vehicle past the game lands building were made after the officer ceased acting within the scope of his employment. Commonwealth v. Carlson, 705 A.2d 468 (Pa. Super. 1998).

Now, this argument is MOOT to the OP anyway as even a municipal officer had no authority to demand her license under the circumstances.

[riverpirate]

From the above:


So, moving right along....

just before
(1) Section 901(a)(17) of the act (relating to powers and duties of enforcement officers) authorizes wildlife conservation officers, when acting within the scope of their employment, to pursue, apprehend or arrest any individual suspected of violating any provision of 18 Pa.C.S. (relating to the Crimes Code) or any other offense classified as a misdemeanor or felony and, in addition, to serve and execute warrants and subpoenas for these offenses.

just after

(1) A wildlife conservation officer shall arrest or take other appropriate enforcement action pursuant to the authority vested by section 901(a)(17) of the act only to the degree necessary to protect life and property in any one or more of the following circumstances:

(i) The offense occurs in the officer’s presence.

(ii) The offense occurs on lands or waters owned, leased or otherwise controlled by the Commission.

(iii) The offense arises out of Commission operations.

(iv) Another law enforcement agency has reasonably requested the assistance

again can be read either way. but in this laungage as long as the offense takes place in front of them they can act no matter what.

[Pa. Patriot]

Do I think ANY form of LEO should question a obviously printing individual ? Yes. My reasoning is if they are concealing a gun and do not have a LTCF they are commiting a crime.

Your entitled to your opinion. Thankfully for us and freedom, the law does not appear agree with you

So, if you feel that way about guns, do you also think that should the police see you driving they should pull you over to be sure you have a license? After all, you could be driving illegally. BTW, they can NOT do this as the law reads currently either, I'm not suggesting they can but rather asking if you think they should be able to.

What about searching your house because they feel like it (no warrant)? Afterall, if you have contraband in there....

Where does it stop?

[Pa. Patriot]

just before
(1) Section 901(a)(17) of the act (relating to powers and duties of enforcement officers) authorizes wildlife conservation officers, when acting within the scope of their employment, to pursue, apprehend or arrest any individual suspected of violating any provision of 18 Pa.C.S. (relating to the Crimes Code) or any other offense classified as a misdemeanor or felony and, in addition, to serve and execute warrants and subpoenas for these offenses.

just after

(1) A wildlife conservation officer shall arrest or take other appropriate enforcement action pursuant to the authority vested by section 901(a)(17) of the act only to the degree necessary to protect life and property in any one or more of the following circumstances:

(i) The offense occurs in the officer’s presence.

(ii) The offense occurs on lands or waters owned, leased or otherwise controlled by the Commission.

(iii) The offense arises out of Commission operations.

(iv) Another law enforcement agency has reasonably requested the assistance

.

See my prior reply. 1(b) is contingent on (a)(1) and (a)(2).

(a)(1) and (2) are pretty clear to me.

...again can be read either way. but in this laungage as long as the offense takes place in front of them they can act no matter what.

There was no crime afoot at the BK in the OP's story. And they (WCO) were not "acting within the scope of their employment" (a(1)) while standing in line at BK
AND they were not "at the time and places the officer is authorized to perform the activity."... unless there is hunting going on at BK

[thetruepyromaniak]

Notes of Decisions

Scope of Employment

Game Commission officers were acting within the scope of their duty when they encountered the driver in a dump truck parked diagonally across a public highway and observed his colorable conduct, as they were en route on an official call at the time; furthermore, the officers were conscious of the limits of their authority and took care not to overstep those limits, where they did not arrest the driver, but merely detained him during an investigatory stop until the State Police arrived to administer sobriety testing and execute the resulting arrest. Commonwealth v. Schatzel, 724 A.2d 362 (Pa. Super. 1998), appeal denied 1999 Pa. LEXIS 2204 (Pa. July 26, 1999).

Where a wildlife conservation officer acting within the scope of his employment by driving to deposit a deer carcass to the game lands building encountered a vehicle ahead of him which had crossed the center line once by the time the officer reached the entrance to the game lands building, the officer did not possess sufficient information, while acting within the scope of his employment, to arrest the driver for driving under the influence, and the officer’s subsequent observations after following the vehicle past the game lands building were made after the officer ceased acting within the scope of his employment. Commonwealth v. Carlson, 705 A.2d 468 (Pa. Super. 1998)

so if they were on thier way for official buisness, ie, carcass removeal, or to a to give a speech. then they are in the scope of employment. Sounds to me its like on or off duty........I think that would fall back onto what was said hours ago, it all depends on the report.

[thetruepyromaniak]

should the police see you driving they should pull you over to be sure you have a license? After all, you could be driving illegally. BTW, they can NOT do this as the law reads currently either, I'm not suggesting they can but rather asking if you think they should be able to.

What about searching your house because they feel like it (no warrant)? Afterall, if you have contraband in there....

Where does it stop?

My next question, off topic as it is. How is it then they can stop you for a "safty" checkpoint for D.U.I's , Seat belts, etc. They block off the entire road and stop every car.

[Pa. Patriot]

My next question, off topic as it is. How is it then they can stop you for a "safty" checkpoint for D.U.I's , Seat belts, etc. They block off the entire road and stop every car.

Per the Pa. Supreme Court, "authorized" checkpoints are a separate issue.

Those aside, LEO absolutely can not "pull you over" without RAS of a code violation. Such as to check you license.

So, the question was: do you think they should be able to?