AR-15 stripped lower MUST be registered as a handgun - Legal issues?

[pfridirici]

This also conflicts with ATF directive that no multiple handgun sale should be done on the sale of Receivers "since they are not a handgun or a longgun"

[Pa. Patriot]

This holds some pretty serious implications for (i.e. would prevent legal) private transfers. Without new law and without "notice" to the population in general.

Folks, lets remember, this issue does NOT come from the ATF. It comes from the PSP PICS.

They have, as we seem to have reverse engineered in this thread, seriously misconstrued what the ATF did change. AND misapplied existing Pa. Title 18 stature. This "readily converted" is from the definition of "firearm" in 6111.

In short, the screwed up by telling FFL's to violate title 18 without the legal dept giving the go ahead.

I will hopefully be speaking with Lieutenant Lockheizer (sp?) on Monday.

[Pa. Patriot]

This also conflicts with ATF directive that no multiple handgun sale should be done on the sale of Receivers "since they are not a handgun or a longgun"

You are correct. And good point!

I will use this in the material I have for tomorrow.

[-JD-]

Folks, lets remember, this issue does NOT come from the ATF. It comes from the PSP PICS.

They have, as we seem to have reverse engineered in this thread, seriously misconstrued what the ATF did change. AND misapplied existing Pa. Title 18 stature. This "readily converted" is from the definition of "firearm" in 6111.

In short, the screwed up by telling FFL's to violate title 18 without the legal dept giving the go ahead.

I will hopefully be speaking with Lieutenant Lockheizer (sp?) on Monday.

I'm not really doubting that this is likely just misinformation from confused staffers.

On the other hand, these are the same folks who bring us the (non-)registry ... Just sayin'

Go get 'um.

[shakeyman]

I just got off the phone with a pics superviser and they are saying that all ar-15 are readily converted into pistols. All you need to do is put another upper on it. Even though i argued the point that if is has a buttstock it would be an illegal weapon if it isnt registered sbr. They are saying you need to fill out the handgun form for all ar-15s. Either way they werent really clear but trying to talk their way around my questions. That it is just a record of sale and not a registry but wil be put in the persons name. It has nothing to do with the atf regulations. And they are sending a "brochure" out in June telling us of this. But we are supposed to start the paperwork immediatly and "it will help my business"... They also said we arent going to be held accountable for this in previous transactions. But will be in the future.

[knight0334]

I just got off the phone with a pics superviser and they are saying that all ar-15 are readily converted into pistols. All you need to do is put another upper on it. Even though i argued the point that if is has a buttstock it would be an illegal weapon if it isnt registered sbr. They are saying you need to fill out the handgun form for all ar-15s. Either way they werent really clear but trying to talk their way around my questions. That it is just a record of sale and not a registry but wil be put in the persons name. It has nothing to do with the atf regulations. And they are sending a "brochure" out in June telling us of this. But we are supposed to start the paperwork immediatly and "it will help my business"... They also said we arent going to be held accountable for this in previous transactions. But will be in the future.

Since when did the PICS supervisor have the authority to make such policy? The law clearly states what is a "firearm" to be regulated. If a gun doesn't fit that description then tough cookies.

This needs to be taken to court because a AR15 with a barrel longer than 16" and a shoulder stock is NOT a firearm by definition of law. By that policy any and every gun sold would have to be "logged" because they could be readily converted with a hacksaw in a matter of minutes.

[shakeyman]

plus in the state of PA you have to be 21 to buy any AR_15

[knight0334]

plus in the state of PA you have to be 21 to buy any AR_15

Since when?

[shakeyman]

The pics super. said that you have to be 21 since you are filling out the handgun form. I just got off the phone with an atf firearms examiner "earl" and they said that pics has it all wrong. Just any lower has to be treated as a handgun as long as it was never made into a rifle. He alos said that the atf cant contact them to interceed. But i could have the pics super. call them

[knight0334]

Thats a little more realistic.

However that still doesn't resolve the problem of the self-righteous prick at PICS classifying full length AR's as needing to be on the PSP SP4-113 because of certain aspects. Neither a bare receiver or full length long gun meets the statutory description of a firearm to require a SP4-113.

Plus, where is it laid out that the PICS supervisor has the ability to dictate doctrine? That is like putting a fox in charge of the hen house.