AR-15 stripped lower MUST be registered as a handgun - Legal issues?

[thetruepyromaniak]

So it seems that if your on the up and up, and not trying to get over on the feds, then you dont have to worry much.

[HapJack]

Any new information on this?


I think it stinks of bureaucratic bullshit!!!

[Sweet556]

Those are 2 entirely separate statements, and only one of them is true.

Yes, the NFA bars making a pistol out of an existing rifle, unless you register it as an SBR first. So we need to distinguish a "virgin & unbuilt" receiver from a "stripped" receiver. Any receiver that was once a rifle is a no-go for a Title 1 pistol build.

No, there is no law requiring you to "register" or have transferred as a pistol any virgin rifle receiver, whatever your intentions. You can buy 10 virgin rifle receivers today, let them sit for a year or 10, or build them up tomorrow as 10 pistols, 10 rifles, or a mix. Find the statute that says otherwise, either State or federal.

So if I pickup a stripped virgin lower I dont have to do pistol paperwork (which is why we are all here in this dispute with PSP) and I dont have to tell my dealer my intention is to make it a pistol AR? And nothing can or will come back to bite me in the butt? Can anyone else 2nd the motion?

[AKsRule]

Bumped again

This discussion has spread to many Gunboards,ANY Recent INFO on Legal Challenges would be appreciated.

[GunLawyer001]

Bumped again

This discussion has spread to many Gunboards,ANY Recent INFO on Legal Challenges would be appreciated.

I think what we're looking at is a consequence of the way the Federal laws are written. An FFL can't sell ANY gun to anyone under 21, EXCEPT for rifles or shotguns. A stripped receiver is neither. A shotgun without a buttstock is also not considered to be a shotgun. So, even though these aren't "pistols", they also aren't "rifles or shotguns", so they get some of the same treatment as pistols because they don't qualify for the exception.

Same for interstate sales, the exception for rifles or shotguns doesn't apply.

[Xringshooter]

I think what we're looking at is a consequence of the way the Federal laws are written. An FFL can't sell ANY gun to anyone under 21, EXCEPT for rifles or shotguns. A stripped receiver is neither. A shotgun without a buttstock is also not considered to be a shotgun. So, even though these aren't "pistols", they also aren't "rifles or shotguns", so they get some of the same treatment as pistols because they don't qualify for the exception.

Same for interstate sales, the exception for rifles or shotguns doesn't apply.

This is correct.

I call my contact person at the Firearms Unit about once a week (she is tired of hearing from me). Same answer, the lawyers are trying to decide what to do. I wish they would invite us gun dealers to a discussion forum so that they could get our thoughts on this matter. I really think we (the gun dealers) can grasp and comprehend the BATFE wording better than them.

[Sweet556]

Wow this topic made me create a log-in acct. 13 pages of it!

Now Im offically, .....CONFUSED on your stance. Each of you who had a fight in this.

Receivers transfer as, or shall I say go on a pistol sale form. So how you say'th this pertains to the states standing on complete AR rifles?

Remember, the ATF's standing, once a rifle always a rifle.

[tacticalreload]

This is correct.

I call my contact person at the Firearms Unit about once a week (she is tired of hearing from me). Same answer, the lawyers are trying to decide what to do. I wish they would invite us gun dealers to a discussion forum so that they could get our thoughts on this matter. I really think we (the gun dealers) can grasp and comprehend the BATFE wording better than them.

I guess the problem is that they really don't care what we, as gun dealers, think.

[Kenshin]

So where does this whole issue stand atm? I'm still thoroughly confused as to what is going on with all of this. I was recently at Dicks in Reading/Wyomissing and was taking a peek at the R-25 they have there. When i noticed that both it and the R-15 had tags on it saying you needed to fill out the SP4-113 as well. I know this is a complete rifle and not a stripped lower and I know that Dick's probably isn't the most knowledgable but just wanted to figure out what is going on here.

[GunLawyer001]

So where does this whole issue stand atm? I'm still thoroughly confused as to what is going on with all of this. I was recently at Dicks in Reading/Wyomissing and was taking a peek at the R-25 they have there. When i noticed that both it and the R-15 had tags on it saying you needed to fill out the SP4-113 as well. I know this is a complete rifle and not a stripped lower and I know that Dick's probably isn't the most knowledgable but just wanted to figure out what is going on here.

I think that ATF and the PSP have some basis for treating virgin rifle and shotgun receivers as "firearms other than rifles or shotguns". I think it's debatable whether a pistol-gripped shotgun is not a shotgun, but a previous poster is correct that you couldn't transfer a $5 AOW built on one if it were a shotgun.

As for assembled AR-15 type rifles, I don't see any legal basis at all for treating them as "firearms other than rifles". They are rifles, and it would be a federal felony to make a pistol out of one, so the fact that it could physically be done with ordinary hand tools is irrelevant. I didn't find any "readily convertible" language that would allow a rifle to be treated as a pistol, not in the state or federal laws.

If I had an FFL, I'd obey whatever official rules are promulgated in writing through official channels, until someone challenges them successfully.