AR-15 stripped lower MUST be registered as a handgun - Legal issues?

[Seneca Arms Co. Inc.]

I am not in my shop right now so I don't have a PA record of sale, but last night my brother pointed out the the record of sale must be executed "if the firearm is less than 24 inches long". Now the 4473, in note 18, clearly defines "recievers and frames as "firearms". Using this logic ANY receiver, including a Mauser action (remember the XP-100) would require the PA record of sale to be executed.

Steve

Steve this is true. When I was on the phone with Trooper Anderson I asked him a specific example. I said i ordered a Barnard Single Shot bolt action from New Zealand to send out to Carl Bernosky to have built into a Palma rifle. I asked if that receiver would need to be on a state form and his answer was yes :/

this crap is getting worse and worse.

[-JD-]

Rich & Rich,

Thanks for the clarifications. I have no intention of selling stuff other than incidental to tired of this/doesn't work for me/trade up sort of situation - I view this stuff as part of my legacy. Regardless, I don't want to run afoul in the arcane legal maze.

And on the original point:
I guess I'm shaping up to be both a bit wrong

....
I'm really not suggesting any conspiracy, but the implications could go further than the original FFL transfer if this becomes the official (,not law, but) regulation.

And right.

....
On the other hand, these are the same folks who bring us the (non-)registry ... Just sayin'
...

Thanks for your help. Owe you both Rep. when I can.

[archangel689]

Why not file the lawsuit now as motivation for their legal dept to make the correct decision?

This is crazy. They're going to have a list of every gun!

Ok, folks. back to the original topic:

Discussing the issue with Lieutenant L. is a waste of time. The folks at PICS have decided that a AR-15 receiver is a handgun even though they have not that authority. Not surprisingly, they don't understand that and/or are unwilling to concede.

Now, they HAVE told me they are waiting on the "legal dept" to make a decision.

I have spoken to an attorney today and am awaiting more info and his research into the issue, I may contact another attorney tonight as well.
I figure we can wait to see what the PICS legal dept says. THen (or before) we may want to have a court ordered decision on this and/or order to force PICS t stop telling dealers to violate 6111. Meanwhile, I will be executing transfers per 18.Pa.C.S.6111.
I will post more info on the possibility of a court action when I get it.

[GunLawyer001]

Why not file the lawsuit now as motivation for their legal dept to make the correct decision?

This is crazy. They're going to have a list of every gun!

Who would you sue, and what would be your legal standing? I suspect that some dealer would have to be officially told of the change, refuse to comply, receive sanctions, then appeal those sanctions on the basis that the rule is contrary to statute.

As for the list, yes, their real reason is probably the desire to keep track of these guns, which are otherwise "unregistered". If only gun registration were illegal in PA....

[Wildturk]

Not true. Inaccurate legal statement removed. ~Staff You can't take a receiver that was once a rifle and build a pistol from it.

[GunLawyer001]

Not true. If you plan on building a "Pistol" out of the stripped receiver it needs to be transfered to you as such. You can't take a receiver that was once a rifle and build a pistol from it.

Those are 2 entirely separate statements, and only one of them is true.

Yes, the NFA bars making a pistol out of an existing rifle, unless you register it as an SBR first. So we need to distinguish a "virgin & unbuilt" receiver from a "stripped" receiver. Any receiver that was once a rifle is a no-go for a Title 1 pistol build.

No, there is no law requiring you to "register" or have transferred as a pistol any virgin rifle receiver, whatever your intentions. You can buy 10 virgin rifle receivers today, let them sit for a year or 10, or build them up tomorrow as 10 pistols, 10 rifles, or a mix. Find the statute that says otherwise, either State or federal.

[archangel689]

That mr556 with the incompatible lower is looking mighty good now.

no updates?

[tacticalreload]

Again, this is NOT correct. Not since 2005.
FFL's are allowed 50 per year before they are required to get an 07 and pay Federal FAET. Firearms and Ammunition Excise Tax.
Ref: http://www.ttb.gov/pdf/50gun_exemption.pdf

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I don't think this is correct. If I understand it correctly, you need to have an 07 to manufacture in any capacity... however, only 07's that manufacture more than 50 per year are on the hook for FAET. Can you show me where I'm wrong?

"Manufacturing" by definition of the ATF includes a whole hell of a lot. For example, if you buy a plain ol' 10/22 and put on a new stock and swap a custom trigger group, you "manufactured".

[Seneca Arms Co. Inc.]

"Manufacturing" by definition of the ATF includes a whole hell of a lot. For example, if you buy a plain ol' 10/22 and put on a new stock and swap a custom trigger group, you "manufactured".

The ATF just made a clarification on this subject and I am going to paraphrase but it goes something like...Swapping out parts that are considered "drop in" do not constitute manufacturing. I think last Small Arms Review had an article about it. So changing out stocks, custom finishes, even barrels on 10/22s (since they are truly drop in) do not constitute manufacturing. Again I am paraphrasing so don’t quote me verbatim.

[Pa. Patriot]

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I don't think this is correct. If I understand it correctly, you need to have an 07 to manufacture in any capacity... however, only 07's that manufacture more than 50 per year are on the hook for FAET. Can you show me where I'm wrong?

"Manufacturing" by definition of the ATF includes a whole hell of a lot. For example, if you buy a plain ol' 10/22 and put on a new stock and swap a custom trigger group, you "manufactured".

In addition to the PDF Iposted, I recall seeing a ATF faq regarding "gunsmiths" and other 01FFL's. I am looking for it. It essentially said the same thing, however it was geared towards gunsmiths.