Gun on school grounds...

[Bug44]

..............

[HiredGoon]

My girlfriend will soon be a teacher... Is it legal for her to keep a gun locked in her glovebox in her car, while the car is parked on school grounds...

§ 912. Possession of weapon on school property.

(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon"
in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime),
"weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be
limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-
chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool,
instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily
injury.
(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the
first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on
the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to
or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational
institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed
by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary
parochial school.
(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is
possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised
school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful
purpose.
(Oct. 16, 1980, P.L.978, No.167, eff. 60 days)

1980 Amendment. Act 167 added section 912.
Cross References. Section 912 is referred to in section 6105
of this title.

[LittleRedToyota]

as goon posted, it is, by default, a crime.

however, the defense in (c) might cover her from a legal standpoint. seems like the courts have never yet defined what exactly they think "lawful purpose" means (and, of course, when it comes to the courts, unfortunately, what words actually mean seems to sometimes be of little relevance).

moreover, though, i would not at all be surprised the conditions of employment she agrees to by taking work at the school include a prohibition against her bringing a gun even into the parking lot and leaving it in her car.

so, even if she is covered legally by the defense outlined in (c), it won't likely prevent her from being fired if she gets "caught".

of course, if she is smart about it, she isn't likely to get caught...

[Bug44]

yea... Thank you guys!

You can always find a new job...
Good luck finding a new life...

[/dev/null]

My wife subs and has been in lock-downs twice now. Im personally for LTCF holders to have one (and my wife has her LTCF), but I dont have the time or extra cash to be the Guinea pig for the test case. While IANAL there are several here that would advise not to go onto the grounds - of course, business may be slow for them too, so I could be wrong

[imperialism2024]

yea... Thank you guys!

You can always find a new job...
Good luck finding a new life...

I'm not entirely sure I agree with that statement, in the circumstances you posted.

I'd think that, first of all, if she's a teacher, her chances of getting hired in another teaching position with having a record of bringing guns to school (especially given the NEA's positions on guns), would probably be very slim.

Second, if she's keeping the gun in the car, it's not exactly going to do her much good while she's in the school. While a legitimate case may be made for needing someplace to store the gun in order to defend herself on trips to and from work, that can be satisfied by parking her car off of school property.

From a legal standpoint, I'd argue that self-defense is a "lawful purpose"... and even if it is deemed not to be, the law is too vague to be considered valid. Unfortunately, there are two bad things about that. First, if it has to be argued in court, that's a gigantic hassle and expense for the citizen. Second, our nation of fear and nannyism prefers "security" over freedom.


So, uh, tell her to park on the street and walk a little further.

[Sandcut]

I know Headcase in the recent past has sent his State reps a letter requesting amending Section 912(c) to add a sentence including people w/ LTCF as well as LEOs while on duty. (Can you believe that no one bothered to make an exemption for LEOs? That's a rhetorical question by the way.)

I was planning on sending out a letter similar to his the first week in April to get it on radar and then, hopefully, bring it up with whoever I meet with on the 21st.

Just a suggestion. Personally, it's a big concern for me. The "other lawful purpose" wording is too vague and open for (incorrect) interpretation. Even if PA were to pass legislation allowing parking lot storage in general, this statute would have to be amended individually as it is specifically for schools.

[imperialism2024]

*snip*
Just a suggestion. Personally, it's a big concern for me. The "other lawful purpose" wording is too vague and open for (incorrect) interpretation. Even if PA were to pass legislation allowing parking lot storage in general, this statute would have to be amended individually as it is specifically for schools.

Does Pennsylvania adhere to a "void for vagueness" doctrine?

[knight0334]

Does Pennsylvania adhere to a "void for vagueness" doctrine?

Sorta.. If challenged in court they can be found unconstitutionally vague. But you have to win without a judge creating definition via caselaw.

[HiredGoon]

as goon posted, it is, by default, a crime.

however, the defense in (c) might cover her from a legal standpoint. seems like the courts have never yet defined what exactly they think "lawful purpose" means (and, of course, when it comes to the courts, unfortunately, what words actually mean seems to sometimes be of little relevance).

moreover, though, i would not at all be surprised the conditions of employment she agrees to by taking work at the school include a prohibition against her bringing a gun even into the parking lot and leaving it in her car.

so, even if she is covered legally by the defense outlined in (c), it won't likely prevent her from being fired if she gets "caught".

of course, if she is smart about it, she isn't likely to get caught...

Yeah, I didn't mention the gray area of "lawful purpose" since that pretty much comes down to a personal choice if you believe that a "lawful purpose" includes having a LTCF.

And how a cop (thinking of busting you for it) and/or trial jury would feel about it.