OC Story (Condition light-Orange)

**emsjeep** · March 16th, 2009, 04:38 AM

This one is from a few weeks back, but I'm up late and figured I'd post up. I'm going to preface this with this statement: I was aware of the consequences of all actions and inactions on my part at the time of the event and am comfortable both with what I did and the resolution of the situation, especially in regards to behavior that could potentially be deemed threatening.

I was out to dinner on a late no-reservation walk-in with my girlfriend. Good food and company, but we were out late at the mall, by the time we were finished and on our way out the door everything was closed and the mall was virtually empty save a few Security people and a handful of restaurant patrons on their way home. To get back to the vehicle we had to walk from one end of the mall to the other. I was wearing a loose button up untucked over a t-shirt, CC'ing my GLOCK 27 in an OWB Serpa CQC.

In a particularly isolated portion of the upper level of a 2 level shopping concourse we were passed head on by a 6' 2" 250lb white male wearing a tan down coat (I was nice and warm in my 2 shirts, so it was a contributing factor, however minor);he was just a little bigger than me. Being well into condition yellow at the time I attempted and was denied eye contact as we passed and I noted that the individual was mumbling to himself and twitching, not in and of itself threatening or unusual to a medical professional.

The individual passed us without acknowledgement and at the time was the only other person I could see in that portion of the mall; we were for all intents and purposes alone.

I monitored the situation in the reflection of the glass storefront of the establishment we were passing as I was put on higher alert by the behavior. Expecting nothing more to come of it I casually watched him walk past. Then after he had put about 1.5 store fronts distance between us the subject abruptly turned on the balls of his feet and made a U-turn behind us. Trying to contain the brick I was getting ready to pass I put my girlfriend in front of me and to my right and picked up the pace looking for my next opening to the left.

I continued to follow the developing situation behind us and noted that the subject was closing the distance pretty quickly and was directly behind us, not to the left where he could pass. As the next break in the railing approached the subject had closed the distance to about 1/3 of a store length, I motioned and said "left now" to my girlfriend and made an abrupt and awkward left turn in the direction of a somewhat distant security officer. As I completed the turn I noticed that the subject had committed about two full steps in our new direction. I reached out and grabbed my girlfriend's hand and in the same motion allowed my shirt to ride up and over the firearm going from CC to OC and put her in front of me (ie. putting me between her and the subject, not the other way around).

At or about that moment the subject stopped dead in his path and turned back to his right to follow the path I would have expected him to take instead of following us. I went and found some quick cover and watched the subject exit the mall from behind an architectural element while I brought myself and my blood pressure back down to condition yellow.

Is that one of those 2 million unreported preventions or do I deserve to be in jail for scaring the pants off some poor psych patient?

ETA: The location was KOP walking from Legal Seafoods to the lot behind the Cheesecake Factory, for those who are familiar, around 11:00PM on a Saturday, usually a pretty nice place. Just goes to show you never know when or where.

**General Geoff** · March 16th, 2009, 04:52 AM

My bet is "one of those 2 million unreported preventions."

**Brillfan** · March 16th, 2009, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by emsjeep

This one is from a few weeks back, but I'm up late and figured I'd post up. I'm going to preface this with this statement: I was aware of the consequences of all actions and inactions on my part at the time of the event and am comfortable both with what I did and the resolution of the situation, especially in regards to behavior that could potentially be deemed threatening.

I was out to dinner on a late no-reservation walk-in with my girlfriend. Good food and company, but we were out late at the mall, by the time we were finished and on our way out the door everything was closed and the mall was virtually empty save a few Security people and a handful of restaurant patrons on their way home. To get back to the vehicle we had to walk from one end of the mall to the other. I was wearing a loose button up untucked over a t-shirt, CC'ing my GLOCK 27 in an OWB Serpa CQC.

In a particularly isolated portion of the upper level of a 2 level shopping concourse we were passed head on by a 6' 2" 250lb white male wearing a tan down coat (I was nice and warm in my 2 shirts, so it was a contributing factor, however minor);he was just a little bigger than me. Being well into condition yellow at the time I attempted and was denied eye contact as we passed and I noted that the individual was mumbling to himself and twitching, not in and of itself threatening or unusual to a medical professional.

The individual passed us without acknowledgement and at the time was the only other person I could see in that portion of the mall; we were for all intents and purposes alone.

I monitored the situation in the reflection of the glass storefront of the establishment we were passing as I was put on higher alert by the behavior. Expecting nothing more to come of it I casually watched him walk past. Then after he had put about 1.5 store fronts distance between us the subject abruptly turned on the balls of his feet and made a U-turn behind us. Trying to contain the brick I was getting ready to pass I put my girlfriend in front of me and to my right and picked up the pace looking for my next opening to the left.

I continued to follow the developing situation behind us and noted that the subject was closing the distance pretty quickly and was directly behind us, not to the left where he could pass. As the next break in the railing approached the subject had closed the distance to about 1/3 of a store length, I motioned and said "left now" to my girlfriend and made an abrupt and awkward left turn in the direction of a somewhat distant security officer. As I completed the turn I noticed that the subject had committed about two full steps in our new direction. I reached out and grabbed my girlfriend's hand and in the same motion allowed my shirt to ride up and over the firearm going from CC to OC and put her in front of me (ie. putting me between her and the subject, not the other way around).

At or about that moment the subject stopped dead in his path and turned back to his right to follow the path I would have expected him to take instead of following us. I went and found some quick cover and watched the subject exit the mall from behind an architectural element while I brought myself and my blood pressure back down to condition yellow.

Is that one of those 2 million unreported preventions or do I deserve to be in jail for scaring the pants off some poor psych patient?

ETA: The location was KOP walking from Legal Seafoods to the lot behind the Cheesecake Factory, for those who are familiar, around 11:00PM on a Saturday, usually a pretty nice place. Just goes to show you never know when or where.

Your actions makes it 2,000,001 unreported preventions. Well done.

**headcase** · March 16th, 2009, 09:02 AM

First, good SA and I'm happy both you and your girlfriend are OK.

Secondly, only you can determine what the situation was and whether or not there was an imminent incident that the sight of your firearm averted. I can sympathize with the feeling, as I have been in a situation where every bell I had went off and as soon as my firearm was visible, low and behold, the subjects about faced and left the area. Good for you, man.

**shooter357** · March 16th, 2009, 09:12 AM

I see nothing wrong with what you did.
You were in Pa?

**TaePo** · March 16th, 2009, 09:24 AM

For the newbies, this is an excellent example of using reflective surfaces to your tactical advantage.

Windows and mirrors are most common but don't rule out metallic objects as well.

Rep to OP.

**ChamberedRound** · March 16th, 2009, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by emsjeep

Is that one of those 2 million unreported preventions or do I deserve to be in jail for scaring the pants off some poor psych patient?

To answer your question, given this part of the story:

Originally Posted by emsjeep

allowed my shirt to ride up and over the firearm going from CC to OC and put her in front of me (ie. putting me between her and the subject, not the other way around).

At or about that moment the subject stopped dead in his path and turned back to his right to follow the path I would have expected him to take instead of following us.

does it matter? You had reason to feel threatened due to a stranger in pursuit, and he broke off the chase when you showed your holstered weapon. I'd say you handled the situation very well.

In addition, even if you had caused "a scene", you did absolutely nothing illegal, and as such you shouldn't be questioning whether or not you should be in jail. It's not illegal to scare anyone, nor is it illegal to CC or OC a weapon.

Glad you and your girlfriend are OK.

**lildobe** · March 16th, 2009, 09:55 AM

And here we see one of the ADVANTAGES to OC

...

Sorry, had to get that in.

Anyway! Good work keeping the SA up. That is, by far, the most important part of self-defense.

That being said - having been in the KoP mall a few times, I realize how isolated you can get in there, especially with as convoluted as it's layout is.

For those not familiar with it: It is not laid out like many large malls with long, straight, open corridors. Rather, it is a cluttered mishmash of zigzagging walkways and kiosks which make seeing from one end to the other impossible. This also provides good cover for someone who doesn't want to be seen.

On an unrelated note... where did you get the graphic that you are using as an avatar... and do you have a larger version of it?

**shefearsnothing** · March 16th, 2009, 10:01 AM

It sounds like you handled it appropriately. You used the least amount of "force" (meaning no force) and took a defensive position rather then immediately going offensive. You were aware of your surroundings and if you had not been may have been pushed into using lethal force. Rep coming to you.