Improved Hit potential Under Stress

**FUNDAMENTALS** · March 15th, 2009, 03:19 PM

I was re-reading some past threads where the discussion was over wether
to choose a Revolver or a Semi-Automatic Pistol, then the disccussion over
magazine capacities, etc. It reminded me of the reason that the transition by large or small departments from the mid 80's to now, went over to the
various models of semi-auitomatics pistols. The first thought that crosses your mind is Firepower. I was reminded in going over a book published by
Massad F. Ayoob, titled: The Semiautomatic Pistol in Police Service and Self-
Defense. (1987, ISBN 0-0936279-07-9). "Firepower" was one reason the
change occurred, but was 3rd or 4th on the list . It is still true today as
it was over twenty years ago: "Improved Hit Potential Under Stress".
In his book, Massad referenced a study according to the Police Foundation,
a subsidiary of the Ford Foundation, that found nationwide studies of Police
Gunfights, showed a first shot hit potential on the target/perp of only 25%.,
aywhere on the body. So, in other words, for every four shots fired under
stress, only one hit the target/Perp. The other 75% (3 shots), went out into
the community at large with Police Double Action Revolvers. So to make this
short, it was reasoned that Semi-Automatics Pistols would improve
officers ability to hit there targets under stress better due to reduced
trigger pulls, lower bores axis, less muzzel flip etc. I have always believed
that with "proper training", this is reasonable criteria for selection of a Semi
over a Revolver in Law Enforcement and Self Defense. With that said, I
have been concerned that my first shot hit the target dramatically regard-
less of magazine capiticities. The book was interesting for the information
contained for that era. Would like your thoughts on the matter, leaving
you with this thought by Chris Orndorf, a moderator/gunsmith on the
Sig Forum, responding to a question that a department was making there officers go to double action semi-auto pistols only. His response was:
"Lets take an admittedly difficult task, shooting accuratley under extreme
duress and make it harder".

**JoeWilliams** · March 15th, 2009, 03:26 PM

Good theory. Reality, though, doesn't reflect the wishful thinking. Now police just send more rounds into the community. There hasn't been a marked improvement in police marksmanship, but when a cop is getting shot at, he or she tends to empty the magazine. So now you've got 10 or 15 rounds downrange instead of 6. Cool part is that said cops honest to goodness only remember firing however many rounds they were taught to fire during training.

**S&W 10mm** · March 15th, 2009, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by JoeWilliams

Good theory. Reality, though, doesn't reflect the wishful thinking. Now police just send more rounds into the community. There hasn't been a marked improvement in police marksmanship, but when a cop is getting shot at, he or she tends to empty the magazine. So now you've got 10 or 15 rounds downrange instead of 6. Cool part is that said cops honest to goodness only remember firing however many rounds they were taught to fire during training.

Hey Joe is that revolver in your avatar what I think it is? lol

**JoeWilliams** · March 15th, 2009, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by S&W 10mm

Hey Joe is that revolver in your avatar what I think it is? lol

I'm not sure, what do you think it is?

Aside, of course, from my carry gun

**FUNDAMENTALS** · March 15th, 2009, 08:05 PM

Joe, I have to go along with your statement on "What they fire in Training".
I have said this before: That the manner in which one trains, is the manner
in which one will respond to in a deadly force situation. So if the training is
minimal, as to Act 120 standards, the response will be minimal by the LEO.
I believe that on several occassions that private persons taking advanced
combat courses far exceed what PD's give there officers on a yearly basis.

**S&W 10mm** · March 15th, 2009, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by JoeWilliams

I'm not sure, what do you think it is?

Aside, of course, from my carry gun

Ah, at first as I just saw the revolver part of your avatar I thought you found you another sp-101. Then the more I looked at it, I was pretty sure it was a Smith so I was partly right, lol

Hows it shoot? It better than the Ruger, and of course what about weight?

**JoeWilliams** · March 15th, 2009, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by S&W 10mm

Ah, at first as I just saw the revolver part of your avatar I thought you found you another sp-101. Then the more I looked at it, I was pretty sure it was a Smith so I was partly right, lol

Hows it shoot? It better than the Ruger, and of course what about weight?

It's a S&W Model 66, a mid-sized, 4" barrelled .357 Magnum. Somewhat larger and heavier (36 oz) than the SP101. It's also more accurate, this particular one has a much better trigger, is easier to shoot well, but harder to conceal. All in all, it's a gun I'm going to like as well as my dear departed SP101, and every bit as useful in terms of versatility and all round usefulness.