Where is the PA militia?

[Bug44]

I would love to join Project M*^&%$#m.



As EM mentioned above, Pennsylvania's current Militia really is a joke. I think it is more of a POLITICAL thing than a military thing.

I would like to truly see a good citizen militia set up across PA. Not just one unit in total control. But say several units, co-working together if needed.

I would like to see units in Western, PA.. A Central and an Eastern Division. Units set up that would do some serious training. Not just military training. But training on what to do in the event of a natural disaster or some other emergency.

But there are those that oppose this idea. They are concerned with these units becoming power hungry and being part of the problem if things would get ugly. And I understand that. But I for one, am all for it.

great IDEA! Lets do it!

[Emptymag]

Do I understand it correctly that it is illegal to have more than 3 people "training" at one time?
(As in, five guys meeting to "train" on property owned by one of the men.)

I know I heard something to that effect, but not sure if it has anything to do with "militias" or not.

[Carnes]

Do I understand it correctly that it is illegal to have more than 3 people "training" at one time?
(As in, five guys meeting to "train" on property owned by one of the men.)

I know I heard something to that effect, but not sure if it has anything to do with "militias" or not.

The law talks about whoever "assembles with one or more persons" but, nothing wrong with training so long as you are not training for unlawful purposes or planning to create civil disturbances. I think that training people to be prepared in the event of a civil disturbance is perfectly legal, reasonable and legitimate. If riots break out and you want to be able to defend your home "Facility Defense" techniques would be good to know. If times are so desperate that traveling the highways becomes extremely dangerous due to armed thieves, knowledge of "Convoy Operations" and "React to Ambush" techniques would be a must. There is plenty of other 'paramilitary' training that would be useful to the average Joe facing a crisis situation.


Bold Mine

§ 5515. Prohibiting of paramilitary training



(a) Definitions.--As used in this section the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:


"Civil disorder." Any public disturbance involving acts of violence by assemblages of three or more persons, which causes an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual.


"Explosive or incendiary device." Includes:

(1) dynamite and all other forms of high explosives;

(2) any explosive bomb, grenade, missile or similar device; and

(3) any incendiary bomb or grenade, fire bomb or similar device, including any device which:

(i) consists of or includes a breakable container including a flammable liquid or compound and a wick composed of any material which, when ignited, is capable of igniting such flammable liquid or compound; and

(ii) can be carried or thrown by one individual acting alone.


"Firearm." Any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive; or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.


"Law enforcement officer." Any officer or employee of the United States, any state, any political subdivision of a state or the District of Columbia and such term shall specifically include, but shall not be limited to, members of the National Guard, as defined in 10 U.S.C. § 101(9), members of the organized militia of any state or territory of the United States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico or the District of Columbia, not included within the definition of National Guard as defined by 10 U.S.C. § 101(9) and members of the armed forces of the United States.


(b) Prohibited training.--

(1) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.

(2) Whoever assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, said person intending to employ unlawfully the same for use in or in furtherance of a civil disorder commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.


(c) Exemptions.--Nothing contained in this section shall make unlawful any act of any law enforcement which is performed in the lawful performance of his official duties.


(d) Excluded activities.--Nothing contained in this section shall make unlawful any activity of the Game Commission, Fish and Boat Commission, or any law enforcement agency, or any hunting club, rifle club, rifle range, pistol range, shooting range or other program or individual instruction intended to teach the safe handling or use of firearms, archery equipment or other weapons or techniques employed in connection with lawful sports or other lawful activities.


CREDIT(S)

1982, June 11, P.L. 476, No. 138, § 2, effective in 180 days. Amended 1992, March 19, P.L. 18, No. 7, § 2, imd. effective.

[jcabin]

PA has more militia than any other state in the country, combined I believe.
When we first moved to PA they tried to recruit my father but he said no thanks. These were cub scout leaders, etc. The cub scout leaders comprised of cops, lawyers, doctors, plumbers, etc. Good luck locking up the whole state.

[PeaceAndLove]

What would this militia do exactly?

Carnes is right. Wouldn't it be simpler and safer to just meet your neighbors, participate in politics, write thoughtful columns in your local and national media?

If you're concerned because sociopaths may be running things, it's because the rest of us aren't stepping up to the plate.

Democracy and a free and civil society does have a bit of upkeep, doesn't it?

[Pa. Patriot]

Democracy and a free and civil society does have a bit of upkeep, doesn't it?

Democracy is the reason we are where we are. We were founded as a republic. Freedom will not be restored until the republic is.

[Mtbkski]

What would this militia do exactly?

An army of one is nothing more than a pain in the ass. Sure, you can be trained on your own. But one trained man against several trained men who trained and worked together, is toast.

Setting up fields of fire. Learning to set up crossfires. How to clear a building as a team. Learning how to lay down cover fire effectively for a buddy. How to build and establish a stronghold or a simple roadblock. One man can't do this.

These are the kinds of things that I would like to work with fellow member on. I was a Jarhead in the Corps. I've played the games. But, can I count on you to know what I am going to do. Can I count on you to know what you need to do to help me out if I need it.

That is what Militia Training is all about. Even Swat trains and works together, as does the local football team. Don't work together.... And both of them get their butts handed to them.

[Mtbkski]

I don't think many people see a need for it at all. I recommend that everyone takes a trip and spends a couple weeks in a third world nation. Not even a violent one, just a crappy dirty one, then come back and talk about wanting to be prepared.



No, no and no. And the best part is that contrary to popular belief, none of that would even be illegal. If you taught someone the military method for conducting an Ambush or a Raid, you could possibly be caught up in PA anti-paramilitary regulations, but if you stick to defensive things like Facility Defense and React to Ambush, it should all be totally legit. Nevertheless, I would consult and retain an attorney before actually engaging in such activities.



I don't really think it will help much. The people that are usually excited about doing militia stuff have this glamorous idea about running around in the woods with cammo on and having fun playing GI Joe. The reality is that there has to be tons of focus on organization and logistics to even get such an organization to be remotely close to functional. The training is just the icing on the cake, and in reality good training is usually more hard than fun, although it does usually provide a rewarding sense of accomplishment.



Yeah, the word militia is definitely no good. And I don't really think that all by itself a militia is a very practical organization... It is a very expensive insurance policy against something that has a very tiny chance of being useful. I think that if a militia-like organization were to be practical, it would have to offer a much wider array of potentially useful services.

That's why I went with the name, "Pennsylvania Contingency Preparedness Organization," (PACPO).

I started a little free forum for the sake of kicking around some ideas regarding trying to get something like this going, but there is definitely a lack of interest, and at present my motivation is pretty much stalled out.

If anyone wants to take some initiative and contribute ideas regarding the structure of the organization, you are welcome to have at it:

http://pacpo.proboards52.com

Sounds good. I'll check it out.

[eXceLon]

Democracy is the reason we are where we are. We were founded as a republic. Freedom will not be restored until the republic is.

The terms "Democracy" and "Republic" aren't contradictory.

[Big77]

What would this militia do exactly?

Carnes is right. Wouldn't it be simpler and safer to just meet your neighbors, participate in politics, write thoughtful columns in your local and national media?

If you're concerned because sociopaths may be running things, it's because the rest of us aren't stepping up to the plate.

Democracy and a free and civil society does have a bit of upkeep, doesn't it?

I work in the media. Spend way more time in NYC than I would like too. Many columns have been written, and we are still here. I have worked in politics, and still, here we are. I worked for Ron Paul for the months leading up to the election - and here we are. I know every person on my street - and to be honest, they would look to me for safety. Sociopaths run things because the put every ounce of life they have into taking control, and will work for generations to do it. The system has to much cancer, to simply cut it out. The normal channels have given normal results. Here we are.


I'm not talking camo and training to march. I'm talking communication and information. For example - easy access to the names and address of every police officer we pay to work in our towns. Any person the gov gives a weapon to, that is in your area.


That would be a good start. A basic understanding of if you did have to defend yourself from your government - who would be the local tip of the gov attack. Shouldn't every town be prepared to overthrow it's police force if god forbid it came to that?

I understand there are criminals that would want to use this list to harm police, but if a person really wants to go after a cop they will - the simple compilation of information will not cause that.

It would also be a be good for the police keeping our streets safe, to know the public they work for knows where they live. Abuse of power will be less likely with a community that has better understanding of what they are facing.

The first thing I would want to know, if I felt a conflict coming, is who am I facing, how many, what are there weapons, what are there methods of attack, what methods would be best to protect myself from them, and remove that threat.

I honestly do not see anything like this ever happening, and I know a lot of cops, and don't see a single one of them turning on the people they protect - but sadly - it has happened before - and a lot of things are pointing to a storm.

Am I the only one thinking this?

I also have to point out that I am a gun owner, but I will do anything to escape a situation rather than commit violence. I know I will get flamed on her, but history also shows, that violence mixed with aggression never works in the long run, it causes more. Violence as a way to make an escape is still not the best bet. I know I'm gonna get killed for this - But I think the best way to handle an attack is through non violent communication. It's the only way that works in the long run.


With that said - I would still want to know every person the gov has on staff, with a weapon, in my area - or prepped to be in my area. This organizing would be the first thing I would want a safety group to do. With photos of the armed gov persons, and a google style map of there homes - and if possible patrol types, shifts, levels chart. The basic stuff you need to know, when there is a possible threat against you. The information is there - just put together in a way that helps this purpose.


Is preparing to defend yourself against your government illegal?

Maybe call it a peace militia.