Condoning unofficial PAFOA gatherings

[steveforopen]

The buffet thread got me thinking...

Will it ever come to a point where Dan and Doug will proactively insist that some people do not fly the PAFOA flag over their get-togethers?

[ChamberedRound]

The buffet thread got me thinking...

Will it ever come to a point where Dan and Doug will proactively insist that some people do not fly the PAFOA flag over their get-togethers?

To my knowledge, that's already the case. I'll leave all of the following as my opinion, and let Dan correct anything that might be wrong, as I may be erring on the side of caution.

People can use the site to arrange gatherings, meetings, etc. They can also state they are members of the site, even wear t-shirts, etc. But, in no way are people to claim that they are an official representative of the PAFOA, or that gatherings are PAFOA sponsored or sanctioned.

In other words, you wanna wear t-shirts at a group shoot, gun show, etc? Go right ahead. But walking into a restaurant for an OC dinner with a PAFOA banner in tow would be borderline, as it could be misconstrued as an official, sanctioned PAFOA event.

[steveforopen]

To my knowledge, that's already the case. I'll leave all of the following as my opinion, and let Dan correct anything that might be wrong, as I may be erring on the side of caution.

People can use the site to arrange gatherings, meetings, etc. They can also state they are members of the site, even wear t-shirts, etc. But, in no way are people to claim that they are an official representative of the PAFOA, or that gatherings are PAFOA sponsored or sanctioned.

In other words, you wanna wear t-shirts at a group shoot, gun show, etc? Go right ahead. But walking into a restaurant for an OC dinner with a PAFOA banner in tow would be borderline, as it could be misconstrued as an official, sanctioned PAFOA event.

Hmm, I suppose the brightline for me isn't clear enough.

People get the same idea either way. A dozen people wearing poofa shirts, or one guy saying he's a "official" or "spokesman." The idea gets conveyed regardless.

Now, I know it is impossible to control the actions of hundreds in regards to what happens outside of this forum. However, it startles me that...say.... firearms come out of their holsters at "PAFOA events", ya know what I'm saying? Sullies it's reputation beyond belief.

[xXWildPonyXx]

yeah that kinda got me worried guy waving large sum of cash around then pulling out his pistol and laying it on a bed of cash nd snapping photos. It just doesnt set a good image doing that in public. not going to bash the guy because we have all done stupid things that we probably regret. only thing im wondering, does he regret it? or is this going to be a regular thing?

[ChamberedRound]

Hmm, I suppose the brightline for me isn't clear enough.

My apologies, but for me to be more detailed I'd run the risk of speaking out of turn, as I also cannot speak for the PAFOA. At this point, Dan and Doug are the only ones that can act in such a capacity. I'll make Dan aware of this thread and see if he can provide some more clarity.

Now, I know it is impossible to control the actions of hundreds in regards to what happens outside of this forum. However, it startles me that...say.... firearms come out of their holsters at "PAFOA events", ya know what I'm saying? Sullies it's reputation beyond belief.

I hear ya, and for now I'll be keeping my personal opinions on that event to myself, as I don't have all the details.

[danp]

I can't control who gets together where, when or what they wear when they do.

With that said recent events are exactly why I have never let anyone portray any event as a PAFOA sponsored or sanctioned event.

Basically, if I didn't personally organize it or I'm not there, it's not official or sanctioned.

People just need to be careful and think about the larger picture in their actions.

Mistakes cause bad headlines, bad headlines cause public outcry, and public outcry causes anti-gun legislation. Everyone needs to realize the butterfly effect every little choice they make as a gun owner can have on the world.

[xXWildPonyXx]

I hear ya, and for now I'll be keeping my personal opinions on that event to myself, as I don't have all the details.

Good idea not all facts are know and usually a good policy

[BCI Instructor]

Apologies if this suggestion exists in some form already (I'm on dialup while traveling so research isnt easy) ...

Why not have a sticky that states the PAFOA policy as to the use of the name that then listed official events, if any? Anything outside of the "official events" thread would then, by definition, be unsanctioned. This would afford both the forum generally and DanP / Doug specifically a layer of "liability" protection and defend the forum / their integrity.

In light of the present political climate, many of us may choose to be more active, at times to the point of being aggressive, in defense of our Second Amendment rights and similar related causes. This frequently places these events under an even greater than usual "microscope". The Forum is an invaluable resource that should be protected, not placed at risk by an unsanctioned event that receives bad press or goes awry. When organizing or attending an unsanctioned event, we are _users_ or _supporters_ (paid "members") of PAFOA, not it's "officers" or "spokespersons".

Even when opinions here differ, civility rules via common cause and common sense. As for myself, if ever I disagree with any of you, I will fight for your right to voice your opinion, support, or opposition - always. Here's hoping that, going forward, the same common sense largely prevails at unsanctioned events.

[P-11 shooter]

Nobody has EVER claimed to be official spokespersons for PAFOA, and our events have always just been gatherings of friends. Sometimes we shoot guns, sometimes we eat sushi, but the main draw is the companionship.

We have had 24 group shoots and there hasn't been one where the was zero safety violations. When it happens an RO immediately corrects the behavior and everyone goes about their business and has a great time. After the problem is dealt with there's no need to publicly spank the person in the thread.

We had a dinner and there was a safety violation. It was quickly corrected by an RO and the problem was over. It was handled. But people felt the need to turn our thread into a public crucification.

I never once defended the behavior, or implied it wasn't a serious thing. I did however try to move the subject along and try not to drag it out into a huge circus that it eventually became. It makes me really sad to see the memory of such a wonderful event soiled with the ensuing drama. It makes me sad to hear a long standing member say "I'm now glad I didn't go" when everyone had a fantastic time.

These events will continue. They will continue to be safe, and you can bet any unsafe behavior will be corrected quickly as it always has. I just hope we can act like adults and not form huge lynch-mobs and turn a perfectly good thread into a 3 ring circus over a situation that is over and done with.

P-11generallydisgustedSHOOTER

Now let's get past this drama so we can continue to have a great time as we always have. Where's the next dinner thread?

[Pa. Patriot]

We had a dinner and there was a safety violation. It was quickly corrected by an RO and the problem was over. It was handled.

The problem was not "over". Posting the pic publicly brought on a whole new "problem" and also made it clear the original problem was not taken seriously enough. Calling it a crucification is to belittle the seriousness of the offense and the secondary problem of thinking the pic was "cool". It wasn't

I don't understand the defensive tone of the rest of your post...
You didn't get neg rep, you didn't get called a dick sucker, you didn't get told you were an asshole for doing what everyone else should have done.


That said, the "other thread" is locked. Let's not continue to drag it's argument into other threads, eh? If and when it is unlocked you can pile on the bash the people that found the pic offensive and damaging trend.