OC seemingly misunderstood in York City

[87th PVI]

I am acquainted with a York City PD officer through his girlfriend who is a coworker of mine. I have recently learned that this officer (who is a very nice guy and who has been about the only helpful person on the YCPD I've come in contact with over the past few years.) is upset with me for supporting OC.
I personally would rather CC in my daily routine, but that is my choice.
(Nothing against OC rights... more of a not keeping your clothes on at the nude beach thing combined with a why show your cards thought process for me personally)

I asked my coworker if she could find out from her boyfriend for me what training YCPD has had on the subject of OC.
I have been on TV recently thanks to fighting a local pre-emption law, and having our council meetings aired on the local community access channel, and my name has been printed in a couple newspaper articles on the subject. She had mentioned in the past that her boyfriend had seen me in the news.

The next time I saw her she said he was extremely upset with me. He doesn't like that I am "advertising" that just anyone can OC. She said it's dangerous enough for him out there without people like me going around telling the newspaper that it's legal for thugs to OC. (which I've never done by the way)
I explained that the newspaper articles dealt with a law that was an illegal preemption violation, and I didn't want our city council to break the law. (especially while playing with my rights and tax dollars)
I explained that I asked about the training due to the fact that I didn't want our local PDs to be breaking any laws or commiting rights violations that could end up getting them sued and spending my tax money to defend them.
I especially didn't want her bf mixed up in some lawsuit since he's a good guy & I like him.

I explained about felons and age restrictions etc as it concerned OC.
She replied that not every thug is a felon YET, and that I was promoting having them legally walk around with guns until they do commit a crime. I was accused of "giving them the tools" to commit their first crime.
I could not believe my ears! & she apparently was (I'm assuming) getting this from her police officer boyfriend!
I said not every automobile driver has commited manslaughter, but should we take away all the cars from all people who have never done anything in their past to prevent them from currently being licensed to drive because some drivers will have accidents that result in a death?

She then brought up that I had told her that a LEO could not legally detain & run a random check on a citizen JUST for OCing, and that they would need some probable cause that the person had or was about to commit a crime. She said that meant that felons could walk around OCing and the cops couldn't do anything about it until they did something else wrong.
I said, first of all, a felon isn't going to OC. He's not going to want any possibility of drawing attention to the fact that he has a gun. A felon knows he's not allowd to even posess a firearm, so if he's going to break that law, he'll also break the one about CCing it without a LTCF. Criminals don't follow the law... that's why they are criminals! Why don't some people get that simple fact?!?!?!?
I also pointed out that IF her boyfriend saw someone OCing who he knew was a felon because he had helped put the guy away in the past... that is his probable cause right there!

She then went into if the pepper spray she uses for SD is taken from her it won't be lethal when the atacker uses it against her. I said, no it'll just make it easier for him to rape you and hinder your ability to ID him later, & if she isn't that confident in her abilities to use it then she shouldn't carry it at all.

Then she went into the whole innocent bystander argument... I don't want to be the innocent bystander that gets hit by one of your bullets when you are "defending yourself."
I replied and neither of us wants to be the innocent bystander who dies in a car accident when a police officer hits us while engaged in a chase that probably started in order to issue a speeding ticket.

Spirited debate can be fun!

[Kimba]

The problem I see here is that you are using reason with a person who is blinded by their own opinions and her BF's interpretation of his beliefs. Have fun debating but but don't get a headache from banging your head against the brick wall.

[Armed_in_Lancity]

So what else did the cop say ? are you still friends ??

[Curmudgeon]

87th PVI, whenever you want to OC in York City, let me know, I'll gladly accompany you. Maybe we can get a pizza or something, the 4 of us, if the wives are up for it! Gee, maybe with 4 of us we can get a ride in a paddy-wagon!

I have been OC'ing through Windsor Township, Springettsbury Township, up and down Market Street, in and out of dozens of stores, and even a couple trips into York City.

I have yet to get any kind of feedback or response from anyone. In fact, I have yet to catch anyone even glancing in the direction of my firearm. Not that a couple weeks is any kind of trial, but, so far so good.

Every time I have seen you, you have presented yourself in a very conservative, clean-cut, and professional manner. Any LEO who would confuse you with a "thug" should be stripped of his badge or forced to re-run the academy!

I refuse to come down on one side or the other of the OC vs.CC contest. Both have their place under the umbrella of the 2nd Amendment, and I will support anyone who wishes to either OC or CC legally.

My meager +12 rep pts to you for this thread!

[jahwarrior72]

your friend's boyfriend is a tool. you can tell him i said so.

[Robert Kayland]

The problem I see here is that you are using reason with a person who is blinded by their own opinions and her BF's interpretation of his beliefs. Have fun debating but but don't get a headache from banging your head against the brick wall.

Pretty much like most of the debates around here... except without the BF!

[Paradigm]

Yet another reason why you shouldn't walk up to an LEO and ask his/her opinion of OC.

Jah is right...he does sound like a tool.

[shefearsnothing]

Then she went into the whole innocent bystander argument... I don't want to be the innocent bystander that gets hit by one of your bullets when you are "defending yourself."

In response to this one, remember only 2% of the time does a private citizen hit a innocent bystander. 11% of the time a POLICE OFFICER hits an innocent person. Bet that would have shut her up.

By the way, is she coming to the lunch in March?

[Pa. Patriot]

... He doesn't like that I am "advertising" that just anyone can OC. She said it's dangerous enough for him out there without people like me going around telling the newspaper that it's legal for thugs to OC.

Ugh... Epic logic fail.

Let's examine this.

OC is legal.
LEO wants it to remain some sort of dirty little secret, so to say, because if "thugs" learn that OC is legal the will do it.
LEO feels that if thugs OC that will make his job more dangerous.


1) Thugs are not going to be likely to telegraph their intentions by OCing.
2) How the hell, exactly, does a thug OC'ing create a higher danger for LEO than a thug carrying CC?
I mean, hello? Does he think that thugs (criminal background) that can not obtain a LTCF are somehow allowed to OC? Because they typically are not. If you are ineligible for a LTCF you are (with a couple narrow exceptions) also prohibited from possession and OC.

So remind your LEO friend that
1) OC does not permit otherwise prohibited thugs from carrying.
2) A "thug" that carries (legally or illegally) is no more of a threat if they OC over CC. They are still carrying.

Good lord.

[jahwarrior72]

In response to this one, remember only 2% of the time does a private citizen hit a innocent bystander. 11% of the time a POLICE OFFICER hits an innocent person. Bet that would have shut her up.

i love this stat, especially when you smack people down on live TV with it.