Citation at a State Game Land Range

[Guy Fawkes]

Isn't the PGC like a self licking lollipop? The more they discourage hunters and shooters the less revenue the will garner through license sales and sporting good taxes which pay their salaries. What did the game warden get by issuing the ticket? Obviously it wasn't for safety or he would have stopped him after the fourth shot. Perhaps he was just paying his salary for the day!

[tl_3237]

Unless the range was SPECIFICALLY designated for handguns, the 3 round default rule applies.

058 Pa. Code § 135.181(c) Exceptions for a handgun range. At a Commission range specifically designated as a handgun range, it is permitted for an individual to load and discharge a handgun containing a maximum of six rounds of single projectile ammunition at any one time. Other rules and regulations pertaining to shooting ranges under Commission ownership, lease or jurisdiction shall be in effect.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/05.../s135.181.html

Looks like you'll be fighting an uphill battle, sorry

[tl_3237]

Alright, a little side question here with this 3 round limit. If I show up to my local PGC range with one of my EBR's and say a dozen or so of my 30rd mags, but with them loaded with 3 rounds each, will a warden raise a stink about that? I'd only do that if I was the only one there so as not to inconveniece someone shooting a couple at a time, then going downrange to check. With the 3 round limit in place, I'd rather go through 30 rounds that way, get some mag change practice in, and then take a walk to check the target.

058 Pa. Code § 135.181 (b) Prohibited acts. At a rifle and handgun range located on land under Commission ownership, lease or jurisdiction, except when authorized by the appropriate regional director or a designee for military or law enforcement training, it is unlawful to:

(6) Possess, load or discharge a firearm that contains more than three rounds of single projectile ammunition, except as provided in subsection (c).

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/05.../s135.181.html

It only matters that at all times there are 3 rounds or less in the firearm. The number of mags and their content, IMO, is irrelevant as long as they are separate from the firearm.

[Iron Sights]

I think the three round max is initially an inconvenience. But look at the pleasure you have to shot at an outdoor range in this area. The people I meet at SGL 43 are great people. Sometimes I spend equal time shooting and talking. Sure the PGC people can sometimes be overboard (it happens when you give people authority), but they do stop some of the reckless destruction that some idiots cause. When they come up there to clean up (repair) I usually help them, I want the range to stay open. It’s a shame the shotgun section was closed. There’s no place else close to go. I don’t have a problem with paying a membership fee for a private club, however when you only get a few times a year, it can be expensive. I belong to an indoor range but there is noting like the outdoors. Protect and enjoy what we have.

[ErSwnn]

[QUOTE=AxiTech;595754]__________________________________________________ _______________ I do agree with the rules that are set by PGC and for the same reasons PGC gives. However, I also believe if you are using one of my ranges (I'm a licensed by PGC hunter) that you should also have paid for the use by buying a license.

I never thought of it that way, buying a license to help belay the cost of ranges. Like most non hunters I always looked at the ranges as a state asset usable by any resident. But it's true, the hunters pay for something they need....and the rest of us get to use for recreation. So in fairness to the hunters, and inspired by Axi's post, I'll purchase a license. Thanks Axi for letting me see this in a different light. I'll have one before the next time I head up to French Creek.

[Dredly]

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/05.../s135.181.html

It only matters that at all times there are 3 rounds or less in the firearm. The number of mags and their content, IMO, is irrelevant as long as they are separate from the firearm.

I was warned about quickly switching mags in my AK several years ago. I don't know what he would have charged me under but I'm sure he could have come up with something. I had like 5 or 6 mags with 3 rounds in each :P

[Dredly]

Isn't the PGC like a self licking lollipop? The more they discourage hunters and shooters the less revenue the will garner through license sales and sporting good taxes which pay their salaries. What did the game warden get by issuing the ticket? Obviously it wasn't for safety or he would have stopped him after the fourth shot. Perhaps he was just paying his salary for the day!

it would have been fairly stupid to rush up to a guy aiming at a target with a fully loaded hand gun and start screaming at the shooter...

I highly doubt that the number of hunters would decline significantly if the PGC shut down the ranges. They estimate that its about 200K a year to maintain them... thats a lot of licenses (approx 10,000?) and that doesn't include all the clean up. Its one of the few things the PGC does that isn't for sheer greed

[kevindsingleton]

The PGC officer knew the revolver wasn't fully loaded, since he'd already witnessed the discharge of four rounds, so I agree that, if safety were the main concern, he reasonably should have stopped the shooting after four rounds were fired. Isn't it his sworn duty to stop violations as soon as they are recognized?

It could be argued that the officer had a motive other than safety, or enforcing the range rules, based on his failure to stop the infraction, immediately. I don't know if that line of reasoning will sway a magistrate, but it's worth a try. Of course, since the magistrate likely gets a cut of the fine and fees, "revenue enhancement" is probably a valid motive in the eyes of the court.

I don't understand why you'd be admonished for quickly changing mags in your AK. Based on the range rules, that's precisely what you're expected to do, if you can only load three rounds at a time in your magazines. That sounds like another PGC officer being an unnecessarily complete jerk.

We really should organize an approach to our legislators regarding the SGLs. We pay for them, so we should have some say in how they're administered. Heck, I pay for them, and I don't even use them, and I still want to improve this process.

I'll write a letter to my state rep and senator, and see what they say. Does anyone have enough legalese to compose an appropriate letter?

[CommonHighrise]

FWIW, if I were feeling all boyscout-ish, could there be an issue if I took it upon myself to clean off the 'marker vandalism' from the orange signs at my SGL? Just wanna do my part.

[reverserboy]

3. It helps people keep track of the number of rounds they have fired, thus improving the safety as there are normally no range officers on sight and not all semi-auto weapons lock open on empty, its easy to remember if you fired 3 rounds, try remembering if you shot all 30 when round 28 or 29 is a dud (I've seen it happen, guy almost shot himself when he thought he was clear and wasn't)

This is nonsense. Removing the mag, working the action & looking into the breech is probably a better way to clear a firearm than counting shots.

I usually avoid PGC ranges because of the assholes who sometimes use them & the overzelous game officers.