Citation at a State Game Land Range

[kevindsingleton]

Maybe we need to get our legislators working on a law that says the SGL ranges are permanent, first! I'd rather have laws in place, than PGC whim!

[Dredly]

Maybe we need to get our legislators working on a law that says the SGL ranges are permanent, first! I'd rather have laws in place, than PGC whim!

Great idea... maybe we can get paved roads to them and expanded hours as well!

Everything will increase the cost to the hunters (who are the only ones who should be permitted to shoot at these ranges anyway)

[Jimbola]

Hey all. Thanks and I will take everyones suggestions into consideration. One of you hit it right on the head. He had a badge and needed to prove that he is the law.

If in fact this was a rifle only range I am in the wrong but my friend took a load of pictures of the signs and no where is states rifle only. The only thing there was the orange sign which is the same as the regulations from the web with the "Except handguns are allowed 6 round max" crossed out with a magic marker. The entire sign was generic and at the top if it it reads, "Rifle and Handgun Ranges" etc.... Someone posted that this IS a rifle only range and if this is the case I have broken the rule by firing off my handgun. Also ignorance is no excuse. My point is no where is states rifle only and nobody else was there. This ridiculous rule was for other shooters to get chance to get down range. Not the case here so thats why I said he was just being a prick.

Another question is, if I do plead guilty and pay the fine, will this be on my record and will not be able to own a firearm in the future? This is the only thing bugging me at this point.

Jimmy

[Dredly]

Hey all. Thanks and I will take everyones suggestions into consideration. One of you hit it right on the head. He had a badge and needed to prove that he is the law.

If in fact this was a rifle only range I am in the wrong but my friend took a load of pictures of the signs and no where is states rifle only. The only thing there was the orange sign which is the same as the regulations from the web with the "Except handguns are allowed 6 round max" crossed out with a magic marker. The entire sign was generic and at the top if it it reads, "Rifle and Handgun Ranges" etc.... Someone posted that this IS a rifle only range and if this is the case I have broken the rule by firing off my handgun. Also ignorance is no excuse. My point is no where is states rifle only and nobody else was there. This ridiculous rule was for other shooters to get chance to get down range. Not the case here so thats why I said he was just being a prick.

Another question is, if I do plead guilty and pay the fine, will this be on my record and will not be able to own a firearm in the future? This is the only thing bugging me at this point.

Jimmy

I could be wrong but I don't think there are any "rifle only" ranges... there are ranges that only have "rifle benches" but you can shoot pistols there as well unless someone can post something showing that pistols are banned.

I would suggest not paying the fine and fighting it. Someone crossing off a line of rules on a sign is bullshit. If this is a true law change it should be changed on the website and be clearly posted with current signs. Its a gov't agency, they can afford to make new signs! Ignorance of the law doesnt' apply here as you did not violate the law.

Just for clarification... They got rid of the pistol benches? they used to have a pistol range with targets at (i believe) 15 or 25 yards... when did they get rid of that stop?

[Jimbola]

Just for clarification... They got rid of the pistol benches? they used to have a pistol range with targets at (i believe) 15 or 25 yards... when did they get rid of that stop?

Yes, the pistol bench was not there, I guess. The target backstop was at 50 and 100 yards. This was the first time I'm there.

[imperialism2024]

I believe there is some wording on the PGC website that allows individual ranges to restrict all firearms to 3 rounds... though it could have been a while ago that I saw that, and I have no way to substantiate it.

Regardless, why did you fire 5 rounds? Did you not know that there was a round limit? Did you think it was 6 rounds? Or did you willfully disobey the sign? I'm a bit curious how the conversation with the warden went... in the case of the former two, I'd like to think that if you were respectful and apologized profusely while promising to obey the restriction in the future, and perhaps pleaded for a verbal warning, you may have gotten off.

I mean, you had to have read the big orange sign, no? Whenever I go to a new range, I read through the rules and regulations, even if I've been there before. I want to be aware of safety concerns that may be unique to that range. And if there are any questions, such as to whether or not a handwritten alteration to the sign is valid, the burden is on you to find out the correct information first (by, let's say, using your cell phone to call the number on the sign) before you start shooting.

And just for the record, at the Lehigh county SGL range, the 3-round-for-all limitation has been in place since at least 2004, when I started going there. Then I developed a distaste for having idiots point loaded guns at me, and having to constantly deal with annihilated backstops, so I started going to a private range.

[Jimbola]

I believe there is some wording on the PGC website that allows individual ranges to restrict all firearms to 3 rounds... though it could have been a while ago that I saw that, and I have no way to substantiate it.

Regardless, why did you fire 5 rounds? Did you not know that there was a round limit? Did you think it was 6 rounds? Or did you willfully disobey the sign? I'm a bit curious how the conversation with the warden went... in the case of the former two, I'd like to think that if you were respectful and apologized profusely while promising to obey the restriction in the future, and perhaps pleaded for a verbal warning, you may have gotten off.

I mean, you had to have read the big orange sign, no? Whenever I go to a new range, I read through the rules and regulations, even if I've been there before. I want to be aware of safety concerns that may be unique to that range. And if there are any questions, such as to whether or not a handwritten alteration to the sign is valid, the burden is on you to find out the correct information first (by, let's say, using your cell phone to call the number on the sign) before you start shooting.

And just for the record, at the Lehigh county SGL range, the 3-round-for-all limitation has been in place since at least 2004, when I started going there. Then I developed a distaste for having idiots point loaded guns at me, and having to constantly deal with annihilated backstops, so I started going to a private range.

5 rounds because the revolver I was shooting is a 5 round revolver. Then I holstered my revolver. Then he calls me over (he was standing in the parking lot). After I was told about the 3 round limit I was apologetic. I told him i didn't realized and apologized and said it will not happen again. Still got a ticket. No one else was there shooting. As I said if I did wrong I will pay. No problem. Come to think of it, I even went as far as 10 to 20 seconds delay between shots because I saw him drive in and didn't want to sound as if I was rapid firing.

This is no excuse but I am not from that area. My friend who I went to the gun show in Allentown with took me there. He live anround 5 miles from there. He said he goes there often and never mentioned about the 3 round limit. As I said I am not making excuses. I will pay for my ignorance.

It was a bad way to end a nice gun show and range day.

[Steelblitz]

Alright, a little side question here with this 3 round limit. If I show up to my local PGC range with one of my EBR's and say a dozen or so of my 30rd mags, but with them loaded with 3 rounds each, will a warden raise a stink about that? I'd only do that if I was the only one there so as not to inconveniece someone shooting a couple at a time, then going downrange to check. With the 3 round limit in place, I'd rather go through 30 rounds that way, get some mag change practice in, and then take a walk to check the target.

[AxiTech]

Nice, honorable way to procede. Remind me not to invite you into my foxhole.

__________________________________________________ _______________ I see your point, and usually I'm a 'law and order' kind of guy. But, once in a while, you run into some guy with a badge, who was probably bullied every day for twelve straight years, and he is going to make sure the rest of us pay for it every chance he gets. I was just trying to help a fellow member possibly clear himself from what, most would say, was 'overzealous enforcement'.
I do agree with the rules that are set by PGC and for the same reasons PGC gives. However, I also believe if you are using one of my ranges (I'm a licensed by PGC hunter) that you should also have paid for the use by buying a license. Did you buy one? I hope so, but I won't hold it against you if you didn't. Some like to hunt, some don't. But ALL should be willing to carry theri fair share of the load.
I really hope I misread the tone of your post and that I did not really upset you that much. I'd hate to think there was somebody out there with a gun that gets that upset, that easily!

[AxiTech]

crossed out with a magic marker.
__________________________________________________ _________________ See, right there is the 'vandalism' that I was indicating was there. If it had been an unvandalizd official PGC sign it would have clearly stated exactly how many rounds of ammo youi could have in each type of firearm. "Magic Marker" to me screams "some douchebag vandal didn't get hit enough by his Daddy when he was a little boy". And I would argue that point in court.
Good luck. Seriously, I hope you are able to prevail here. We have enough 'overwatch' in our lives now, and under The One it ain't going to get any better.