Citation at a State Game Land Range

[kevindsingleton]

You go to your state legislators to complain about it.

[Koli01]

the 6 for a pistol and 3 for a Rifle i think is a state wide thing. its been at every SGL ive gone to, about 4 total in NEPA.

sounds like this guy was just being a prick.

doesn't our tax money go to pay for the range, and the wardens paychecks?

i would fight it. but i wouldn't know where to go to complain about it.

Not sure, but I think the Fudd's hunting lic. fees go to paying for the ranges and the game lands that they are located on.


It is always a good thing to READ THE RANGE RULES and FOLLOW THEM when you go somewhere to shoot. If you do those two simple things then the Gestopo Range Masters with have nothing to Power Trip on.

[Dredly]

The 6 in a handgun is designed for revolvers so that you don't have to have empty cylinders, possibly causing the shooter to believe a weapon is empty when it is not.

The 3 rounds in a rifle is for several purposes... all of which I do agree with as a hunter (thus sponsor of the ranges) and as one who used to shoot at them extensively.

1. To prevent destruction to the backstops which get replaced on the PGC's dime If you have to reload every 3 rounds you are going to fire a lot less lead down range then if you can load up to 30 / mag, this is the same reason that shot isn't permitted as it destroys the backstops. Nothing worse then going to shoot and finding the range demolished because some moron decided it would be fun to shoot the posts off the pistol target instead of shooting the backing.

2. To make everything run much smoother on the line. I've been at ranges before where people have brought their mags already loaded, they will sit down and slowly fire 100+ rounds at a target... everyone else is just sitting around waiting for the one guy to finish... very annoying when there are 10 - 15 other people sitting around waiting to check targets and one person is just slowly spraying.

3. It helps people keep track of the number of rounds they have fired, thus improving the safety as there are normally no range officers on sight and not all semi-auto weapons lock open on empty, its easy to remember if you fired 3 rounds, try remembering if you shot all 30 when round 28 or 29 is a dud (I've seen it happen, guy almost shot himself when he thought he was clear and wasn't)

4. The game land ranges are available for enjoyable family shooting but they are intended for hunters (who pay for it) to sight in their hunting rifles and hunting pistols. not for quick draw training or tactical reload drills. If you want to load up 30 rounds and unload them all head to a private range and pay the money to shoot there.

5. There is a reason there is no "non-backed targets"... ever go to a range where people through they would have fun and shoot cans full of water or glass bottles? Shards of metal and glass really suck when you are trying to walk around and even worse when you are attempting to hang targets. Its a classic case of "Some morons ruined it".

[Dredly]

You go to your state legislators to complain about it.

If anything that will do nothing but get additional ranges closed. Its the PGC budget that pays for them 100%... keeping them open is expensive, especially if they need to be cleaned of lead. The more pressure that is put on the PGC in relation to the ranges the less likely they are to keep them open

[krystalzip]

Not sure, but I think the Fudd's hunting lic. fees go to paying for the ranges and the game lands that they are located on.


It is always a good thing to READ THE RANGE RULES and FOLLOW THEM when you go somewhere to shoot. If you do those two simple things then the Gestopo Range Masters with have nothing to Power Trip on.

Someone earlier mentioned the game commission link:

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/v...a=480&q=161297

Based on this, not all of the SGL ranges have rifle and pistol, some only have rifle. The site specifically mentions 6 rounds for pistol, 3 for rifle. The OP is asking for the distinction (based on my understanding of the question) of if it is a rifle only range (which SGL205 is), does the 6 count/pistol regulation stand, or do you have to keep to 3 rounds regardless of what you are shooting because it is technically a rifle only range.

The site provided does not specify. However, the 2008-2009 game book specifically addresses this topic, in which case (based on my reading) the game commissioner was well within his right to cite the OP (sorry):

"Possess, load or discharge a firearm that contains MORE THAN THREE ROUNDS of single projectile ammunition, EXCEPT AT A PGC facility specifically DESIGNATED AS A HANDGUN RANGE an individual is permitted to load and discharge a handgun containing a maximum of six rounds of single projectile ammunition at any one time"

Page 21.

Note here it states "designated as a handgun range". Again, SGL205 is a rifle ONLY range, which means based on the regulation listed above that only 3 at a time. Technically, it also means a handgun should not have been fired there at all.

--Krystal

[kevindsingleton]

The PGC was created by, and serves at the behest of, the state legislature. I'll stand by my suggestion.

I don't know about Dredly's legislators, but mine aren't about to close game land ranges just because some PGC officers are a little zealous in their rules enforcement.

[AxiTech]

Here is what I would do/say: I would definitely, if you haven't already, go to their webpage and print out the part about '6 rounds in the gun'. Then when I got to the court I would absolutely make sure the Magistrate was made aware that some douchebag had vandalized the sign post and there was NO orange rules card posted. Even if they could prove that there was an orange rules card in place and that it had been changed to reflect '3 in rifles and 6 in handguns' I would still argue that the internet page is the more 'durable' of the two and therefore more authoritative. But again, I would definitely point out how someone had stolen that orange card before you arrived. That would be my story.

[krystalzip]

Here is what I would do/say: I would definitely, if you haven't already, go to their webpage and print out the part about '6 rounds in the gun'. Then when I got to the court I would absolutely make sure the Magistrate was made aware that some douchebag had vandalized the sign post and there was NO orange rules card posted. Even if they could prove that there was an orange rules card in place and that it had been changed to reflect '3 in rifles and 6 in handguns' I would still argue that the internet page is the more 'durable' of the two and therefore more authoritative. But again, I would definitely point out how someone had stolen that orange card before you arrived. That would be my story.

Except the internet page earlier provided doesn't state the rule, just thatsome find it unjustified. The game book, which is the authority, states it is not permissible. The game commission can edit their own signs any time they want. Not knowing the law is not an excuse to break it. :-)

I'm not saying don't fight it, I do think it's a somewhat silly rule, but I'm saying make sure you know what the law *really* says (which should have been done ahead of time imo) and what you are getting into before you try arguing the point.

[Koli01]

Here is what I would do/say: I would definitely, if you haven't already, go to their webpage and print out the part about '6 rounds in the gun'. Then when I got to the court I would absolutely make sure the Magistrate was made aware that some douchebag had vandalized the sign post and there was NO orange rules card posted. Even if they could prove that there was an orange rules card in place and that it had been changed to reflect '3 in rifles and 6 in handguns' I would still argue that the internet page is the more 'durable' of the two and therefore more authoritative. But again, I would definitely point out how someone had stolen that orange card before you arrived. That would be my story.

Nice, honorable way to procede. Remind me not to invite you into my foxhole.

[Dredly]

The PGC was created by, and serves at the behest of, the state legislature. I'll stand by my suggestion.

I don't know about Dredly's legislators, but mine aren't about to close game land ranges just because some PGC officers are a little zealous in their rules enforcement.

I meant the more hassle that PGC gets over the ranges the less likely they are to keep them running. There is nothing written anywhere that says that the PGC has to keep ranges open.