Bushmaster C-15 Carbon Fiber AR?

[synergy]

Cam pins don't break in just 1k rounds...even in a stock bushy.

I would pass, I don't think that gun is worth $500.

[larry0071]

I just called and spoke to Bushmaster. The material IS carbon fiber. The carbon fiber that a poster showed is a type that is purposely made and used to have that look. The CF used here is a sorter cut fiber that is mixed into the liquid synthetic material before the molds are poured. He said expected lifespan of the Carbon series uppers and lowers is greater than that of the standard ones.

I asked about the broken cam pin, and he said that a cam pin can break on the first round, 100th round, 1,000th round, or 20,000th round.... If there is an internal flaw... it can break right quick. If there is an internal flaw in the material small enough or not in planer alignment with the stress it could last forever.

I might still buy it and get the BCG rebuild kit for $40 on the Bushmaster website. The bolt cam pin is $4.50 alone, so maybe I'll order 2 or 3.

I hope I can talk this guy down to $650
1 x New Bolt Carrier kit $37.95
2 x extra cam pins $9
3 x Bolt Gas Rings (Set of 3 Rings) $3.15 Each Set
3 x Titanium Firing Pin $42.50 Each, I need 3 for my 3 M4's.

Then I will have 3 ready to rock M4's for me and my 2 boy's. An M4 for everyone!

[larry0071]

Cam pins don't break in just 1k rounds...even in a stock bushy.

I would pass, I don't think that gun is worth $500.

Maybe I can beat him down to $600.....I don't get the feel that he wants to go lower. He paid a grand for it and is feeling that its still worth nearly that. I already upset him last night when I told the shop owner (while on the phone with the owner) that this dudes lying and he "Shot the balls out of this thing". The guy claims the broken cam pin and gouges in the BCG are all from 600 rounds. There are also swirled gauges in the face of the firing pin. Also the bolt lugs are showing wear. I feel its had at least a few thousand happy BUMP FIRED round through it.... and the guy just wants to find some sucker to give him $850 or $900 for an abused, run dry, half broken down rifle.

[jmiro]

Bushmaster calls it carbon material. If they cut up the fiber then some of the strength is lost. The weave in the carbon fiber gives it part of the strength. If they put fibers in it i would make it carbon fiber. Its all on the strength of the design and the application. I can only imagine what carbon fiber like the other stuff would cost on a receiver. Good hockey sticks of the made of that stuff start at 200.

[kevindsingleton]

Plus, using this space-age material adds greatly to the tacticool, "mall ninja" desirability of the rifle, thus increasing the market value. He might get his $850, if he waits a little longer.

The main problem I'd have with these guns is the need to keep the specially-coated BCG installed. At some point, you may have to swap parts with another rifle, and the zombies just won't wait for the FedEx guy to show up with new parts from Bushmaster.

I'd like to have a steel AR, for the range, where weight is much less of a factor. Stainless, even.

[larry0071]

Plus, using this space-age material adds greatly to the tacticool, "mall ninja" desirability of the rifle, thus increasing the market value. He might get his $850, if he waits a little longer.

The main problem I'd have with these guns is the need to keep the specially-coated BCG installed. At some point, you may have to swap parts with another rifle, and the zombies just won't wait for the FedEx guy to show up with new parts from Bushmaster.

I'd like to have a steel AR, for the range, where weight is much less of a factor. Stainless, even.

I have a Charles Daly D-M4 and a Stag 1L already, so I have the parts-swapable model in the CDD. The Stag 1L... being a lefty is not a fit to any but the Stag BCG as well.

But.. In a SHTF situation with Zombies swelling out of the ground... I'll grab for the AK and go! No need for cleaning kits. I can damn near urinate on it every day or three and keep it clean enough.

[synergy]

Well, here is my .02$

Bushmaster isn't to be trusted on their word. There have been numerous emails from the BM customer service people that have severly misrepresented the truth....saying their guns are "mil spec" and claiming that Colt oversized FCG pins are because they couldn't locate the holes correctly the first time....pure bullshit like that.

If you want to know the truth about a product, don't ask their marketing dept.

The receivers are NOT carbon fiber in the traditional sense...no more than Zytel is fiber-glass. They use SOME carbon fiber material (IE: shards of waste from real CF) in the mold for the receivers, but they are NOT layed up CF, as explained earlier.

IF these products out lasted Aluminum receivers, you'd see more experts shooting and recommending them....they don't, take it as a hint.

Worn bolt, cracked cam pin....it was shot, a lot. If the buyer is lying to you about it, what else are they not disclosing?

Expect the gas port to be enlarged, the extractor and bolt needing replacement, the buffer needing to be replaced, along with the disconnecter.

Again, not worth it, IMO.

[larry0071]

Well, here is my .02$

Bushmaster isn't to be trusted on their word. There have been numerous emails from the BM customer service people that have severly misrepresented the truth....saying their guns are "mil spec" and claiming that Colt oversized FCG pins are because they couldn't locate the holes correctly the first time....pure bullshit like that.

If you want to know the truth about a product, don't ask their marketing dept.

The receivers are NOT carbon fiber in the traditional sense...no more than Zytel is fiber-glass. They use SOME carbon fiber material (IE: shards of waste from real CF) in the mold for the receivers, but they are NOT layed up CF, as explained earlier.

IF these products out lasted Aluminum receivers, you'd see more experts shooting and recommending them....they don't, take it as a hint.

Worn bolt, cracked cam pin....it was shot, a lot. If the buyer is lying to you about it, what else are they not disclosing?

Expect the gas port to be enlarged, the extractor and bolt needing replacement, the buffer needing to be replaced, along with the disconnecter.

Again, not worth it, IMO.

I appreciate your insight. As you do (honestly!) have more experiance than my 3 months since purchasing my very first M4. I am limited in what I know. That is exactly why I posted this here.

Can you go a bit further with me if you have a moment...

I understand that your saying the "gas port to be enlarged". Is this the part on the BCG that has the staked bolts going down through it? If so, I can buy a complete new BCG from Bushmaster for about $150 But maybe I'm thinking something different from what your saying?

Also, what about the gas tube that goes from the front site back? Does it get screwed up?

You mentioned the buffer needing replaced. Again, I am assuming you mean the big long spring and the slug that is in the tube of the telescopic stock? If not, what are you refering to?

I just talked to the gun shop owner, he told the guy this morning that I was interested, but not for his $850, and not for his bottom line of $700 he just agreed to. I'm starting to think $500 at tops because if the riffle has been "bump fired" to the point of busting a cam pin and gouging out the side of the cam pin and wiping the black coating off of the leading and trailing edges of the BCG..... is the barrel not also suspect to being smoked...warped... or whatever happens when you heat the livin day-lights out of a barrel? If so.... now your looking at:

BCG $150
Upper/Barrel with no BCG $550-$700 depending on options.
Whatever the buffer is.
plus the price to buy the gun. Now at $500 entry price, your going to end up spending way more than a BRAND NEW ONE.

The deal is sounding worse and worse as I listen to myself type.

[synergy]

I appreciate your insight. As you do (honestly!) have more experiance than my 3 months since purchasing my very first M4. I am limited in what I know. That is exactly why I posted this here.

Can you go a bit further with me if you have a moment...

I understand that your saying the "gas port to be enlarged". Is this the part on the BCG that has the staked bolts going down through it? If so, I can buy a complete new BCG from Bushmaster for about $150 But maybe I'm thinking something different from what your saying?

Also, what about the gas tube that goes from the front site back? Does it get screwed up?

You mentioned the buffer needing replaced. Again, I am assuming you mean the big long spring and the slug that is in the tube of the telescopic stock? If not, what are you refering to?

I just talked to the gun shop owner, he told the guy this morning that I was interested, but not for his $850, and not for his bottom line of $700 he just agreed to. I'm starting to think $500 at tops because if the riffle has been "bump fired" to the point of busting a cam pin and gouging out the side of the cam pin and wiping the black coating off of the leading and trailing edges of the BCG..... is the barrel not also suspect to being smoked...warped... or whatever happens when you heat the livin day-lights out of a barrel? If so.... now your looking at:

BCG $150
Upper/Barrel with no BCG $550-$700 depending on options.
Whatever the buffer is.
plus the price to buy the gun. Now at $500 entry price, your going to end up spending way more than a BRAND NEW ONE.

The deal is sounding worse and worse as I listen to myself type.

The gas port is in the barrel, as you shoot them (especially carbine gas systems) the port enlarges. The more rounds through the gun, the larger the port grows. The larger the port, the more gas the gun gets, the more it wears on the internals, the faster the BCG parts break.

I say you need a new buffer, because I'm betting it comes with a carbine buffer, not a h buffer. As evidenced by the bolt wear, you could do with a heavier buffer in that gun.

I dont think you'd need to replace the entire BCG, just the bolt w/ extractor, cam pin, and FP. ($60ish)

If the bbl is worn heavily, figure on another $200 +instal fees.

You're looking at a Kia with 90k miles on...it might run a lot longer, it might not. For a penny over $500, I wouldn't take that risk.

Some people might argue...that's just my take on it.

[larry0071]

You're looking at a Kia with 90k miles on...it might run a lot longer, it might not. For a penny over $500, I wouldn't take that risk.

Some people might argue...that's just my take on it.

Worthy of a rep bump! Thats putting it into perspective!