OC or CC on Church Property that Houses a Private School

[Paradigm]

I did a quick search with limited results, but if I missed this topic elsewhere, feel free to point me in the right direction...


I'm aware of what this site has provided for direction:

2a.Grounds and buildings of Elementary and Secondary schools(K-12 grades), whether the school is private or public - PA Title 18, Chapter 9, Subsection 912

My daughter goes to a private school. I rarely take her there or pick her up, but it's a possibility. My question relates to the school property itself. It's a Christian school, so they are currently using rooms in a church for the school. I don't know if the rooms are donated or leased (I have a feeling this might matter).

If I take a handgun (with LTCF) onto church property that happens to have a private school in session on said property, does that violate the above PA law?

For the sake of discussion, I would only be dropping her off outside. But if entrance to the building matters, feel free to discuss that aspect, as well.

Thanks!

[knight0334]

If the state recognizes it as a school and accepts it's education in place of public education - then its a school under subsection 912.


There is also the "other lawful purpose" clause that is open to debate... Keep it concealed and stay away from metal detectors and you should be "safe".

[Statkowski]

Just remember, that "other legal purposes" phrase has never been tested in court, and no LTCF holder has ever been prosecuted for carrying on school grounds, or in school buildings (even after being arrested).

The law looks good, and makes people feel safe, but that one phrase throws everything off.

Dropping off the kid and later picking her up, never leaving the car? I wouldn't even sweat it.

[Paradigm]

Thanks for the replies, guys!

[Sir Knight]

I find myself in a similar situation and I leave mine at home. As was said, it LOOKS good but we are still in uncharted waters and unless you have to money to find out for sure if your unlucky enough to be the test case.

[TaePo]

Just remember, that "other legal purposes" phrase has never been tested in court, and no LTCF holder has ever been prosecuted for carrying on school grounds, or in school buildings (even after being arrested).

The law looks good, and makes people feel safe, but that one phrase throws everything off.

Dropping off the kid and later picking her up, never leaving the car? I wouldn't even sweat it.

Technically, doesn't it also mention any vehicle being used to transport students? It doesn't say POV vs. group or 'School Students' cars either.

And for the 'other lawful purpose' clause, I recall seeing discussion (written) about how one judge thought it might mean for LEO/security personnel. Personally, I think he is incorrect, but who would want to be a test case and get a judge like him?!

I conceal when I transport. (BTW transport could be interpreted as the bus stop as well. My home is about 1/4 mile to bus stop so my wife or I do the bus stop pick-up as well.) IANAL but these are my concerns as I read the PA law.

[gnbrotz]

Just remember, that "other legal purposes" phrase has never been tested in court, and no LTCF holder has ever been prosecuted for carrying on school grounds, or in school buildings (even after being arrested).

The law looks good, and makes people feel safe, but that one phrase throws everything off.

Dropping off the kid and later picking her up, never leaving the car? I wouldn't even sweat it.

I agree that the "risk" involved with the OP's decision is minimal, but I would like to add a bit of correction (IMO) to the bold portion above. There are three cases that I am aware of where individuals were indeed prosecuted under §912. In two of the three, defendants were even convicted, but prevailed during the appeal process. The third case has not yet been fully adjudicated.

In Heidler (1999), a conviction was overturned on appeal, because the appeal court ruled that the defendant did not have "constructive possession" of the firearm. It was in his vehicle while he was in the buiding.

In Ingram (2002), a conviction was overturned because the appeal court stated that they could not "conclude beyond a reasonable doubt" that the defendant was on school property. He was actually walking down the street when arrested, and there was "no evidence of record regarding ownership of the road."

Mettler is currently pending.

[MontCo Alex]

Mettler is currently pending.

what is the storybehind mettler, is he/she an ltcf holder?

[jb12string]

I have a somewhat similar situation, I go sans gun during school hours, but usually CC when school is out. Unfortunately the law isn't super clear on the Church/School situation (at least in regards to the church side of things) so I treat the property as a school whenever school is in session

[gnbrotz]

what is the storybehind mettler, is he/she an ltcf holder?

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/351...ball-game.html

Yes. Mr. Mettler has a LTCF.