IWB - They Can't All Be Wrong?

[NotThatOne]

I figure I am on Step 3 of about 5 for CC\OC. Have a pistol that would work for medium conceal, and have my LTCF. Steps 3 through 5 in no particular order are holster, education, training..and a possible step 6, different firearm for CC.

I'm currently in the middle of education and have scoured this sub-forum...reading page after page of threads, and page after page in each thread.

Here's what I can't find. ALL of the highly recommended Tuckable IWBs, and 99.9% of my Internet product searches turn up Tuckable IWBs with no retention. Many PAFOA members have even stated they don't like retention on IWB and prefer to not have it.

Question 1: Other threads seem to indicate that your holster will wear, leaving the pistol "loose" in the holster...so why no retention?

Question 2: It seems entirely possible that bending over, using stairs, getting out of a vehicle, might cause your leg\gut\pocket contents etc to push the gun out of the holster?

Question 3: For all of the CC'ers out there...how many times have you "lost" your gun and had to stop it from falling\sliding or needing to re-holster?

[Philbert]

I figure I am on Step 3 of about 5 for CC\OC. Have a pistol that would work for medium conceal, and have my LTCF. Steps 3 through 5 in no particular order are holster, education, training..and a possible step 6, different firearm for CC.

I'm currently in the middle of education and have scoured this sub-forum...reading page after page of threads, and page after page in each thread.

Here's what I can't find. ALL of the highly recommended Tuckable IWBs, and 99.9% of my Internet product searches turn up Tuckable IWBs with no retention. Many PAFOA members have even stated they don't like retention on IWB and prefer to not have it.

Question 1: Other threads seem to indicate that your holster will wear, leaving the pistol "loose" in the holster...so why no retention?

Question 2: It seems entirely possible that bending over, using stairs, getting out of a vehicle, might cause your leg\gut\pocket contents etc to push the gun out of the holster?

Question 3: For all of the CC'ers out there...how many times have you "lost" your gun and had to stop it from falling\sliding or needing to re-holster?

No retention means nothing to resist someone pulling the gun out. They don't just fall out. A quality holster is somewhat solid and won't squeeze your gun out like toothpaste when you bend over.

[svltrack]

Yes, the holster will wear a little with use. Keep in mind you will have pressure on both sides of the holster by it being pinched between the belt and your body.

[unloved]

Here's what I can't find. ALL of the highly recommended Tuckable IWBs, and 99.9% of my Internet product searches turn up Tuckable IWBs with no retention. Many PAFOA members have even stated they don't like retention on IWB and prefer to not have it.

They have no "active" retention. No thumb break, or other device, that must be removed prior to drawing the gun.

Question 1: Other threads seem to indicate that your holster will wear, leaving the pistol "loose" in the holster...so why no retention?

Most of the good tuckable holsters are either hybrid, or all Kydex. Kydex doesn't stretch, and it tests at around 90 on the Rockwell hardness scale. That's harder than the steel in your gun.

Question 2: It seems entirely possible that bending over, using stairs, getting out of a vehicle, might cause your leg\gut\pocket contents etc to push the gun out of the holster?

Not with a good holster.

Question 3: For all of the CC'ers out there...how many times have you "lost" your gun and had to stop it from falling\sliding or needing to re-holster?

Never, but I don't use soft nylon holsters. Good holsters don't rely on anything other than fit to keep the gun where it's supposed to be.

No retention means nothing to resist someone pulling the gun out.

Again, not with a good holster. A properly fitted holster will only allow the gun to be pulled straight out, making it difficult for someone else to remove your gun from your holster.




IMO, active retention devices do nothing more than promote illusions of security.

[Flash]

If you do carry IWB, the pressure of the clothing, belt, and your belly will cause the holster to "form-fit" to the gun. That alone provides some retention. It works better with a holster that is designed for the specific gun, of course, and leather is generally better at that than fabric (a non-issue with Kydex, of course).. And the design of the gun and the placement/positioning of it inside your belt will combine to retain it.

Most people find a "sweet spot" where the gun, holster, belt, and body all fit together, whether they think much about it or not. Even the KelTec P-11 on the factory belt clip or any other firearm on a "Clipdraw" or one of the "boot-grips" on a J-frame will place a good amount of the firearm inside the belt as BELOW the belt.

Most of the holsters (OWB) you see with retention devices generally are higher-riding, and for them, retention becomes a more significant issue.

Flash

[-JD-]

1) & 2)
With a IWB holster the natural bend of the holster in conforming to the body tends to squeeze down on the gun helping to hold it in place.

Yes, a holster will break in and loosen up a bit. With a good holster that will actually allow the gun to be drawn without the assistance of a pry bar

Also some holsters have adjustment screws or the like to control the retention tension.

The specifics of the holster, gun, body, and location will interact WRT pushing the gun out - It shouldn't. If it does get pushed out, you have the wrong combination - try changing one or more of the variables.


That said, I carry an HK P7M8/M13, mostly casually CC, occasionally OC around 3-o'clock. In that circumstance, I would personally not feel comfortable without active retention. Given the gun, my holster options are quite limited. I found K&D (http://kdholsters.com/iwb-owb-defend.php) and ordered an IWB-Tuckable/OWB convertable Thunderbird Defender with a thumb-break retention strap. They have since removed the thumb-break as a listed option, but did do a thumb-break as a special-order, extra-cost option for me on a susequent OWB Laredo defender. YMMV as they are running full-out and you'll have to specifically ask Kevin if he'll do it.

Good luck!

[Never_Enough]

I use a Crossbreed ST. I have been on my back working on my cars, running up & down stairs, etc. My sidearm has never wanted to slide out.

[KnightZero]

I have had issues with my gun shifting or slipping with cheap IWB holsters - specifically, a DeSantis holster I used for a few months before switching to my CrossBreed. There is a noticeable difference between the lesser quality DeSantis and a higher end holster. My gun never shifts in my Crossbreed, due to the retention provided by the pressure between my belt and my side. However, due to the Kydex holster body and the smooth leather backing, the draw feels like I'm pulling the gun out of thin air.

I personally like IWB for retention purposes. I don't like retention straps, and while I do have a Serpa, my reluctance to trust the button retention system keeps me from carrying with it. While I do have an open top leather holster that I love, I stick with Crossbreed for concealment. With it, I am the retention system - and trust me, when my considerable waistline decides NOT to let go of something, it's not going anywhere.

[NotThatOne]

All great info. Thanks!

I think the 1000 references to the Crossbreed SuperTuck on this forum must mean something?!

[CHEMICAL]

I have used the same IWB for all my guns over the last 12+ years of concealed carry...It's not tuckable, but I love it.

"Bianchi Professional"...and I've never had my gun want to fall out, ever...I've even done cartwheels with the damn thing.

The only IWB tuckable holster I've ever tried was the "Aker Businessman."