Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Pennsylvania bill would pull plug on reloading

    By Coni Marie Sheridan
    Published:
    Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:19 AM CST
    Reloading ammunition in Pennsylvania may become a thing of the past if a bill currently in state legislature is passed.

    According to the National Rifle Association-Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA), “in the last year, so-called “encoded” or “serialized” ammunition bills have been introduced in 13 states — Arizona, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee and Washington.”

    The bills, if passed, would require all bullets and cartridge cases to be marked with a code and registered to the owners in a computerized database, therefore, reloading would be outlawed.

    “It (the bill) would eliminate reloading because there would be no way to serial it (the ammunition),” Rollin Anderson of Anderson’s Gun Shop in Watsontown said. “A lot of guys that handload (reload) are not happy about it.”

    http://www.standard-journal.com/arti...7815601856.txt

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania bill would pull plug on reloading

    That was HB 2228 which died without action in session last year in Harrisburgh. Not that it could not be reintroduced this session and given a new bill number for action, which I fully expect.

    here is a review of some of the proposed anti-gun bills last session - that are dead for now.


    http://acslpa.org/n-legislative/anti...ry_3_25_08.htm

    HB-2228 – Encoded Ammunition Act



    INTRODUCED BY MYERS, M. O'BRIEN, McGEEHAN, THOMAS, PARKER, JOSEPHS, FRANKEL, KENNEY, YOUNGBLOOD,
    W. KELLER, MELIO, WATERS, WILLIAMS, WHEATLEY, KIRKLAND, JAMES, BLACKWELL, ROEBUCK AND OLIVER



    1) All ammunition sold or possessed must have a unique serial number on the base of the bullet, a matching number on the cartridge casing, and your ammunition purchase will be registered with the PA state police.



    2) The seller of ammunition must collect and submit all of the following information to the PSP for use in their database::

    - date of each ammunition purchased

    - serial numbers of all ammunition purchased by you

    - your driver license number

    - Your name

    - Your birth date

    - any other additional information the PSP deemed as necessary.



    3) You will fund this ammunition database, containing your personal information, with an extra .05 cents tax for each round of encoded ammunition purchased. The outside each box of is labeled with the name of manufacturer and a list of all serial numbers of ammunition contained within the box.



    4) Everyone is required to dispose of all ammunition that is not encoded, by Jan 1, 2010. The penalty is not spelled out for possession of un-coded ammo; however the default on any un-graded offense in the Uniform Firearm Act is a first-degree misdemeanor. Therefore, firearm ownership would be prohibited upon the conviction of possessing a single round of un-coded ammo. Are we to think that won’t ever happen in PA? Currently there are people in New Jersey serving one year of jail time for each hollow point in their possession!



    5) Anyone that willfully destroys or renders the encoded information unreadable commits a misdemeanor of the third degree. If you get sentenced to one year in jail, you loose your right to own firearms.



    6) There is nothing in this act that lets you hand load or reload your own ammunition. If you want to load your own ammunition you must obtain a federal license to engage in the business of manufacturing ammo, therefore requiring you to comply with all the numerous federal laws and regulations. This includes paying your yearly Special Occupation Tax along with all provisions required of this act just to reload ammo. Are you ready to be made into a criminal? All of this, to allegedly solve a crime, which career criminals routinely, gets plea-bargained down.
    Reloading ammunition in Pennsylvania may become a thing of the past if a bill currently in state legislature is passed.
    The article is incorrect I can't find a current bill pending in this 2009-2010 session YET!

    So what the point about making a press release about a dead bill, when they didn't make a big fuss about when it was active a active bill....

  3. #3
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    Angry Re: Pennsylvania bill would pull plug on reloading

    I would really like to get several of us together who feel strongly about this one so that we can make sure that nothing like this makes it through.

    Aside from the obvious monetary costs and misidentification liabilities, it would be a horrible shame to outlaw reloading - a tradition that is as old as this country.

    If you are interested in joining me in this effort, please let me know, and we will work together to ensure that there is never success passing a requirement for encoded/serialized ammunition.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania bill would pull plug on reloading

    Wouldn't bills like this also eliminate muzzleloading and black powder shooting?
    "Never give up, never surrender!" Commander Peter Quincy Taggart

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania bill would pull plug on reloading

    I honestly don't believe that a bill like this will be passed anytime in the near future due to the economic environment. The PA State Police can't even get their sexual predator database up to current .gov specks because it would cost millions of dollars a year to keep up to date. Sweaty Eddie doesn't have the $$ to pay for something like this.
    I think ammo registration would cause similar if not worse money problems for the state, it would cost millions for the state to "register" the millions of rounds of ammo that are sold in a years time.
    We are more likely going to be facing massive taxes on our ammo than a serialization.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania bill would pull plug on reloading

    I think I'm pretty good on reloading stock now anyway. Maybe I will buy some more in case... Primers, Powder and lead trip tomorrow!!
    NRA Training Counselor, Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Benefactor Member



  7. #7
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania bill would pull plug on reloading

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeWilliams View Post
    Wouldn't bills like this also eliminate muzzleloading and black powder shooting?
    You can pretty much count on it also being outlawed... unless you bought serialized lead, but, I can't imagine that you would be able to get plain lead at all, since it doesn't tend to keep shape well enough to allow the stamped number to be read. You would have to buy a serialized copper bullet at the same premiums.
    Fred

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania bill would pull plug on reloading

    I don't it has a snowballs chance in hell of going anywhere. Why you ask?

    Well how many communities across Pennsylvania are having financial problems? Now you going to say to Pittsburgh oh by the way we are putting a tax on your Police departments ammunition. Lets see 900 Officers issued 120 rounds per year each. $5,400 in additional supply costs.
    Even a small department of say 15 officers is another $90.
    Most communities are trying to cut costs and this bill slaps more expenses on them. That is if they ONLY issue 120 rounds per year to each of their officers. Now this is on top of the ever increasing cost of ammunition due to the cost of components. .05 per doesn't sound like much until you realize a box of 20 rounds of premium 9 mm, .40, .45 is running $22-$25 and you just added another $1 per box to their costs. It adds up pretty quickly
    Last edited by ALS; January 19th, 2009 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Bad math

  9. #9
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    Lightbulb Re: Pennsylvania bill would pull plug on reloading

    Quote Originally Posted by jpavoncello View Post
    I honestly don't believe that a bill like this will be passed anytime in the near future due to the economic environment. The PA State Police can't even get their sexual predator database up to current .gov specks because it would cost millions of dollars a year to keep up to date. Sweaty Eddie doesn't have the $$ to pay for something like this.
    Anti-gun organizations know that everyone is paying attention to their economic problems, and this would be the perfect time to slip a gun/ammo-control bill in under our noses, which we would have to live with. If a bill like this is not passed, it will be because we fought against it.

    I think ammo registration would cause similar if not worse money problems for the state, it would cost millions for the state to "register" the millions of rounds of ammo that are sold in a years time.
    Yes, the costs would be immense. However, those who would push this upon us will not represent the costs appropriately. Instead, they will suggest that the cost to LE is offset by the ability to solve criminal cases immediately - which is clearly not the case. They will also minimize/fail to mention the other reasons why serialized ammunition is such a horrible idea.

    We are more likely going to be facing massive taxes on our ammo than a serialization.
    We can count on having to fight this one separately for sure, but a requirement for serialized or encoded ammunition is merely another form of massive taxes on ammunition. Anti-gun organizations intend to use it to raise the cost of ammunition until it is out of the reach of law abiding citizens. The difference is that they can use the serialization as a justification for imposing the tax.

    .

    At the very least we have to voice a strong position against these bad ideas, and try to educate our lawmakers (at the very least - if not the public) about the problems it would cause - including the costs.

    It is our responsibility to take this kind of thing very seriously every time, because the first time we fail to stand up could turn out to have been the last opportunity.
    Fred

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania bill would pull plug on reloading

    Quote Originally Posted by ALS View Post
    I don't it has a snowballs chance in hell of going anywhere. Why you ask?

    Well how many communities across Pennsylvania are having financial problems? Now you going to say to Pittsburgh oh by the way we are putting a tax on your Police departments ammunition. Lets see 900 Officers issued 120 rounds per year each. $5,400 in additional supply costs.
    Even a small department of say 15 officers is another $90.
    Most communities are trying to cut costs and this bill slaps more expenses on them. That is if they ONLY issue 120 rounds per year to each of their officers. Now this is on top of the ever increasing cost of ammunition due to the cost of components. .05 per doesn't sound like much until you realize a box of 20 rounds of premium 9 mm, .40, .45 is running $22-$25 and you just added another $1 per box to their costs. It adds up pretty quickly
    The problem is still that the those who push bills like this misrepresent the costs. They will explain that a "small" $0.05 or so tax per round for you and me will cover for the increased costs to LE, and mistakenly add that the investigative impact will offset it further.
    It would not have a snowballs chance in hell as long as we prevent it from having one.
    Last edited by fwestrom; January 19th, 2009 at 12:41 PM.
    Fred

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