N.J. fight on "straw" gun buys heats up

[WhiteFeather]

To many points to highlight in this onehttp://www.philly.com/philly/news/ho.../37053659.html

N.J. fight on "straw" gun buys heats up

New Jersey could soon become the fourth state to limit handgun purchases to one a month, a move aimed at fighting "straw" gun buyers who purchase weapons legally and pass them to criminals.

The plan, backed by officials in Camden, Newark, Jersey City and other cities, follows calls from urban leaders across the nation, including Philadelphia, to crack down on gun trafficking that they say fuels violence.

There is much debate over whether such laws work, however, and opponents say a limit would infringe on a constitutional right in a state that already has rigorous screenings for gun buyers.

The proposal won approval in the Assembly but faces a tough final test in the more evenly divided Senate. Gov. Corzine, who sponsored a similar plan in the U.S. Senate, has said he will "absolutely" sign the bill into law if it reaches his desk.

"How many guns does somebody need to purchase in a month?" Corzine asked.

Only California, Maryland and Virginia have one-gun-a-month restrictions. South Carolina had a similar law for nearly 30 years but repealed it in the face of criticism that it had proved ineffective.

Gov. Rendell called for a one-handgun-per-month measure in Pennsylvania, but it was blocked. Philadelphia approved its own version and saw it struck down in court.

In a December hearing, Bryan Miller, executive director of Ceasefire NJ, said the New Jersey bill would not stop gun trafficking in the state but would be an impediment. Buyers would be restricted to one handgun purchase every 30 days - up to 13 a year because of timing quirks. He said the limits would not apply to other guns.

"What we're talking about here is some sort of balance . . . between the privilege of a tiny minority of handgun owners in the state and the common good of public safety," Miller said. "We're talking about a light burden, if any."

But some law-abiding citizens buy several guns at once to avoid repeated waits for background checks, gun-rights groups say. New Jersey already has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, according to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, a gun-control group. Pistol purchases can take weeks or even months, gun advocates say.

"This legislation makes it a crime to exercise a constitutional right to obtain handguns any more often than Big Brother dictates," said Scott Bach, president of the Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs.

New Jersey handgun buyers must obtain permits from local police and go through background checks, Bach said. That lets police know when multiple purchases are made, he said.

"It's overkill in the extreme, based on the false and unsupportable premise that criminals and their surrogates buy their crime guns from Jersey dealers after marching down to police headquarters to volunteer and submit themselves for fingerprinting, background checks and extensive personal disclosure," Bach said.

But that's exactly what gun-control advocates say happens. Fingerprints and personal records help only after a crime is committed, Miller said. Straw buys appear legitimate at first because criminals work with buyers who have clean records. Limiting such purchases, Miller said, could head off some crime.

He pointed to gun-tracing data from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) showing that 28 percent of "crime guns" in New Jersey were first bought legally in the state, a sign, he said, that approved purchases can still lead to violence.

Most of the national criticism related to straw purchases centers on states with softer gun laws, such as Pennsylvania. There, the vast majority of 250 gun-trafficking arrests in the last two years were tied to straw buyers and the people who received the guns, said Al Toczydlowski, chief of the Philadelphia Gun Violence Task Force.

New Jersey Attorney General Anne Milgram and the ATF have launched a stepped-up program that requires local police to share gun-tracing information with the state and federal agency. So far, its only case has resulted in charges in May against five men whose original purchases were in Pennsylvania and who therefore would be unaffected by the pending legislation. Most crime guns in New Jersey come from other states.

Senate Majority Leader Stephen Sweeney (D., Gloucester) said New Jersey already had plenty of regulations.

"We get so many laws on the books now that we don't enforce, the fact that we continue to put more on doesn't make any sense," he said.

It is difficult to measure the impact of gun-buying laws in other states.

Virginia approved a one-gun-per-month limit in 1993. The Virginia State Crime Commission issued a report two years later saying the rule had not created an undue burden on gun buyers and had reduced the number of crime guns traced back to the commonwealth.

But advocates on both sides say the law has been watered down with exceptions since then. Gun-rights groups say that's because the law proved ineffective, while gun-control organizations argue that lawmakers bent to lobbyists.

In December, Mayors Against Illegal Guns - a national coalition of more than 300 municipal leaders, including Philadelphia's Mayor Nutter and Camden Mayor Gwendolyn Faison - ranked Virginia back near the top of states that are a source for crime guns.

In Maryland, police saw a drastic reduction in gun sales immediately after the state's limits went into effect in 1996. Yet a 2001 study by the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research found only a slight decline in gun violence.

California has had a buying limit since 2000, but police there say its impact is difficult to measure because the state has so many other firearms restrictions. The Brady Campaign ranked California's gun laws as the most stringent.

New Jersey is second, though its urban leaders say guns are still a problem.

In 2006, Jersey City passed an ordinance limiting gun buyers to one purchase per month, but it was struck down in state Superior Court.

The rule "arbitrarily and capriciously burdens the rights of individuals who have absolutely nothing to do with crime and violence," a judge wrote.

State Sen. Sandra Cunningham, a Democrat who represents part of Jersey City, hopes to move a statewide limit through the Legislature.

"The point of this is that we want to prevent [straw purchasers] from buying the guns in the beginning, and then we won't have to worry about them afterwards," she said in testimony last month.

Such talk makes Dale Kopas, a self-described sportsman from Gloucester County, wonder what restrictions could follow. In Trenton, after a committee voted last month to advance the limit, he pulled a pack of cigarettes from his pocket and wondered: Would he someday be limited to one pack a month?

"I resent being put in the same category as gang-bangers," he said.

[adymond]

I stopped reading at this nugget:

New Jersey could soon become the fourth state to limit handgun purchases to one a month, a move aimed at fighting "straw" gun buyers who purchase weapons legally and pass them to criminals

Purchasing a firearm with the intent of selling it without documentation (I am speaking only of handguns since that is typiclly what is targeted in this type of legislation) or to a person over state lines without the use of an FFL is not legally purchasing a firearm. That is the defination of a straw purchase is it not?

[gf45acp]

Do any of these people realize that in NJ you need an individual Permit to Purchase a Handgun for every handgun you buy?
If you put paperwork into the PD for 100 permits they are going to be all over you. I have been asked by the State Police why when I applied for 3 in one year.
Who in the name of whatever God you prefer is going to go into a police station and apply for dozens of permits to traffic the guns on the street???????
No one with a brain is going to go through getting an FID, getting a Permit to Purchase a Handgun, be fingerprinted, going in and out of the police station to hand a gun that is directly traceable to them to a prohibitted person.
NJ is not like some states where you just fill out a form and stand around, you have had an extensive backgroud check done before you get handed the permit to purchase.
The fact that any gun was bought legally is no proof that a straw purchase was involved. Nor does that so called "stat" even limit itself to handguns, which the legislation does.
More PRNJ BS.

[GunLawyer001]

The important thing here is that the proponents of "one gun a month" don't believe it will affect crime, but they want it anyway. They live to ban guns, but nobody else is buying into their scheme, so they have to try to ban guns a little piece at a time, and lie about what they are doing.

When some con man tries to get you to pay him to make it rain, he at least has enough respect for your intelligence that he'll lie and say that you'll get some rain out of the deal. These "crime-fighters" tell you up front that their laws won't have any measurable impact on crime, but you're supposed to buy into it anyway.

I wouldn't spend a quarter on a light bulb if the seller told me it wouldn't light up, why should we infringe gun rights to fight crime if the infringement won't fight crime?

It's like driving westbound on the Turnpike to get to New York State, and driving faster once you realize that it's the wrong direction. "Well, it's a start", an idiot might say. "Anything that gets us moving will help." Well, no, even baby steps in the wrong direction are worse than useless. Restricting the law-abiding in an attempt to fight crime is being a fascist, especially when you admit that it won't fight crime.

Notice that they talk about "crime guns" being bought legally at first, but ending up in criminal hands. They say this in the middle of a discussion about straw purchasers. They carefully DON'T say that most of these are stolen from the original purchasers. I'd bet that most drive-by shootings involve stolen cars, cars that were bought legally from a dealer at one time. Do we stop drive-by shootings by restricting car sales? Do you really NEED more than 1 car every 5 years?

[Vig]

Do any of these people realize that in NJ you need an individual Permit to Purchase a Handgun for every handgun you buy?
If you put paperwork into the PD for 100 permits they are going to be all over you. I have been asked by the State Police why when I applied for 3 in one year.
Who in the name of whatever God you prefer is going to go into a police station and apply for dozens of permits to traffic the guns on the street???????
No one with a brain is going to go through getting an FID, getting a Permit to Purchase a Handgun, be fingerprinted, going in and out of the police station to hand a gun that is directly traceable to them to a prohibitted person.
NJ is not like some states where you just fill out a form and stand around, you have had an extensive backgroud check done before you get handed the permit to purchase.
The fact that any gun was bought legally is no proof that a straw purchase was involved. Nor does that so called "stat" even limit itself to handguns, which the legislation does.
More PRNJ BS.

I completely agree. I'm sure that the vast majority of gun owners would NEVER willingly hand a gun over to someone whom they don't implicitly trust. This is all just more left-wing feel-good crap legislation. I hope this BS doesn't cross the border!

[WhiteFeather]

Another NJ story along the same lines, with some quotes.

Note they count gun confiscated as victories yet never will you read how many successful prosecutions for firearm violations (using the lock and key) that will really make a difference to combat crime or repeat violent criminals by getting them off the streets not just their guns.

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news.../35853614.html

Arrests, drugs, guns in N.J. crackdown

TRENTON - Authorities in New Jersey converged on almost every county in the state over the last six months to shut down violent gangs, curtail illegal drug sales and get guns off the streets.

Yesterday, law-enforcement officials converged on the state capital to offer up some big numbers as a result of the county takedowns and to reiterate that their job isn't finished.

"Let me put the drug dealers and the gun traffickers on notice: We are in this for the long haul," Attorney General Anne Milgram said at a morning news conference.

The operation, part of Gov. Jon S. Corzine's "Strategy for Safe Streets and Neighborhoods," has resulted in the arrest of 1,844 on charges that include murder and drug trafficking.

Many suspects had ties to the Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, MS-13 and Nietas, historically the largest organized gangs in the state, authorities said.

The operation also confiscated more than $4 million in illegal drugs, $857,769 in cash, and 162 weapons.

The two largest efforts, Milgram said, were in the city of Camden and in rural Salem County, where 249 suspects were arrested, most of those in the town of Salem.

Camden's takedown netted 306 arrests, from drug buyers to violent gang members - and even a female police dispatcher accused of conspiracy to commit murder.

In Camden, where local gangs intermingle with larger organizations like the Bloods, taking so many criminals, guns and drugs off the streets could stir more violence as others try to fill the ranks, authorities said.

"We definitely don't want to create a vacuum," said Josh Ottenberg, Camden County acting first assistant prosecutor. "People will try to come in and take control. We've been particularly careful about that."

Camden's homicide rate, which was on a record pace in the summer, has slowed in recent months. Last Wednesday, a 20-year-old city man was shot dead in daylight in a neighborhood known for drugs. That was the 48th homicide this year in Camden.

Statewide, Milgram said, violent crimes continue to drop, as they did last year. In the first nine months of 2008, overall violent crime in the state dropped by 7 percent.

Milgram said that violent gang members have two options in New Jersey - prison or death. But she said that the state is working on prevention programs for children and more comprehensive re-entry programs to curb recidivism.

"It will be a constant and continuous fight," Milgram said.

Matthew Horace, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive's special agent in charge in New Jersey, said that because of the state's strict gun laws, there's a good chance that the 162 weapons, which included 22 assault weapons, had not come from within the state.

[WhiteFeather]

Yet another NJ story, like all of the other NJ anti-gun laws are working so well, another one will make NJ a better place to live than all of the other numerous gun control laws apparently have not done to date.....

Proposed assault riffle ban exempts antiques

TRENTON, N.J. - It's a gun ban George Washington could approve of , or at least the Revolutionary War re-enactor playing him each year.

That's because a proposed ban on large-caliber assault weapons in New Jersey also would legalize the type of guns commonly used by re-enactors.

Currently, a firearm popularly known as the Brown Bess and often used during battlefield scenes violates the state's gun possession laws.

Assemblyman Reed Gusciora's bill would exempt antique and muzzleloading firearms that use a traditional flintlock or cap lock and rely on black powder.

Gusciora says that while antiques are fine, modern rifles with a caliber of .50 or larger serve no appropriate civilian use and should be illegal.

[MartinBrody]

The important thing here is that the proponents of "one gun a month" don't believe it will affect crime, but they want it anyway. They live to ban guns, but nobody else is buying into their scheme, so they have to try to ban guns a little piece at a time, and lie about what they are doing.

Gunlawyer sums it up perfectly here. They absolutely know they can't ban guns outright, but they can achieve the same goal in other ways. NJ has some of the toughest gun laws in the country but their politicians will pass anything, even in the face of common sense.

"What we're talking about here is some sort of balance . . . between the privilege of a tiny minority of handgun owners in the state and the common good of public safety," Miller said.

This seems to be Bryan Miller's favorite argument, that it is for the common good. Sorry, but I am not giving up my RIGHTS for the common good. There is a lot that can be 'justified' with the common good argument, that is why we have the bill of rights to prevent that thinking from coming to fruition in the way of laws.

[shefearsnothing]

"What we're talking about here is some sort of balance . . . between the privilege of a tiny minority of handgun owners in the state and the common good of public safety," Miller said.

Well we need to ask him, if he's going to be responsible for disarming this "tiny minority of handgun owners" then when they are victimized because they could not defend themselves how is he going to sleep at night knowing he's personally responsible?

[Penguini66]

"What we're talking about here is some sort of balance . . . between the privilege of a tiny minority of handgun owners in the state and the common good of public safety," Miller said.

I think good old Franklin just threw up a little in his grave:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin