State/local law on discharging a firearm?

[unclejumbo]

Was it a 50 BMG or a .22? Really? Discharging a firearm in a residential area around children and other people while consuming alcohol is not a clear enough situation for the PSP to do something about it because they only enforce State Law? Seriously? What kind of police do we have and how much are we paying for them to stand by until someone is shot?

Guess it isn't reckless enough for the PSP until a bullet goes through the head of some little kid playing in the yard nearby. Thank god they are there to serve and protect.

This is a situation waiting to go bad with major scandal written all over it. When it does and Piers Morgan is covering the funeral of the little dead kid while he rants about the lax gun laws that kill little kids, it won't be the cop who didn't think discharge of a firearm in a residential area while drinking was a clear enough violation to do something about that Morgan will be attacking. Instead it will be every legal gun owner in the US.

Do you find any irony in your post considering your signature line?

As I wrote in my post, it depends on the totality of the circumstances. You sound like every gun-grabber to ever come down the pike. "Think of the children!" Do you know the circumstances? I don't, but I certainly don't automatically presume because children are in the vicinity that it must be a crime.

I've seen townhouse communities that back onto open property. I wouldn't have a problem with someone in their yard shooting into a dirt mound in such a situation. I would have a problem with someone shooting from their yard toward other townhouses.

'Recklessly Endangering' requires certain elements be met to prove the crime. It is a much different burden than a township ordinance that restricts shooting.

[unclejumbo]

No I don't see any irony, whatsoever. Just as you can't yell fire in a crowded theater without there being a fire and claim freedom of speech, you can't recklessly discharge firearms in residential areas, and claim its "my property". This is especially true if you have been consuming alcohol which has undoubtedly affected your common sense and ability to consider the safety of those around you.



The circumstances as they were related were individuals consuming alcohol and discharging firearms in a residential area where there are people nearby. In what fantasy world is that not reckless behavior? This is the type of behavior that reflects badly on every legal gun owner in the nation.

Now please also note, I never suggested that you arrest, taze or shoot anyone who is committing such an incredibly stupid and reckless act, but as a PSP officer, you are entirely reckless if you refuse to intervene in such behavior and get those reckless individuals to stop and reconsider their potentially deadly behavior.



Yes i suppose that shooting into a mound on the ground in a residential area is completely safe. There is no chance of a ricochet or any other mishap that might KILL someone. After all these individuals here consuming alcohol so there was no possibility that they might be affected by it and do something that might harm another individual.

If these same individuals had been driving a car and consuming alcohol and behaving reckless, Id bet a good amount of money that you would have hauled their asses to jail without much of a second thought, but the same individuals firing a gun in a neighborhood is OK? Seriously?



If, as an officer of the law, who's job is to SERVE AND PROTECT, you don't think that drinking alcohol and firing a gun in a residential setting with people around is reckless, and at minimum worth a few minutes of your time to talk to the offendign individuals and ask them to in a firm but polite manner to stop their dangerous behavior and move their activity to a safer area away from homes and people then you are part of the problem!

So now you would like the police to impose their will, regardless of the law. You dig your hole deeper and deeper with each post.

[DavidTM]

I'll jump in on this just because.

First: I don't quite understand PAFormerConstable's post on his 26+ acres concerning the target shooting. Is he saying he no longer shoots ANY target practice at all? Or he simply doesn't shoot any target practice at this 12 acre plot that is located near these fussy neighbors? I need some clarification here.

Second: Mrg5166...something. Hey dude..your getting pretty worked up about something small here. I think what the PSP is saying is that when he walks into a situation it's based upon "FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES" and he uses his judgement to determine if there is an immediate threat to public safety. If you objectively go back and read his post, it's pretty clear he has made that statement obvious. MRG5166.... has tossed in this "alcohol" issue as if a party of "motorcycle thugs" are downing their third 5th of whisky and have no control of their arms or hands and shooting is just willy-nilly. HMMmmm... I don't think that's the case. While I agree that firearms and alcohol have no place together, not all people think alike. Some people can drink a six pack and function like they have just drank a glass of milk. I still don't want to shoot with these people, but I'm just saying...... So, if Mr. PSP has determined that the public is not in any type of danger, he perhaps tells said target shooters that continued use of alcohol and firearms, along with a second visit may change things.

Now, that may not be MRG5166...'s viewpoint, but not everyone on the planet is trained like an engineer. (i.e.: If it fits into a formula.....then arrest it) And I'm glad for that.

PS, I have had to call the PSP on a few occasions and have always found them to be helpful, diligent and use reasonable judgement in resolving any disputes.

FIWI

Dave

[customloaded]

'You obviously feel that as a State Polie Officer, unless the State passes a law that specifically tells you that observing individuals consuming alcohol and discharging firearms
Well, since PA State law is silent on consumption and firearms anything, well then I guess that's settles the issue. NO CRIME COMMITTED! Pretty damn simple. By the way, I doubt officers of the law "FEEL" about the law. I'm pretty sure they follow and enforce the law incompliance with criminal procedure and departmental policy.

in a residential area with people around is illegal that it is someone elses problem and you can't be bothered to interject yourself into the situation and attempt to de-escalate it before someone is shot.

SHAME ON YOU.

A residential area and discharging firearms don't have anything to do with the law on a state level. What is so hard for you to comprehend?

What needed de-escalating? To my knowledge and reading this thread, there was no face to face confrontation between anyone. So what needs de-escalated? Why don't you, being a good neighbor, speak with the men shooting and express your concerns? Why do you expect Police to enforce laws that don't exist?

CL

[unclejumbo]

A residential area and discharging firearms don't have anything to do with the law on a state level. What is so hard for you to comprehend?

What needed de-escalating? To my knowledge and reading this thread, there was no face to face confrontation between anyone. So what needs de-escalated? Why don't you, being a good neighbor, speak with the men shooting and express your concerns? Why do you expect Police to enforce laws that don't exist?

CL

I'll bet he'd be singing a different tune if an officer stopped him for open or concealed carry and had a chat with him about the dangers of carrying a firearm. Told him he was more likely to have it used against him than he does of using it against a bad guy.

It's very apparent Mrg that you sold your soul to the state. Shame on you for believing that law enforcement should enforce opinion and forbid those things the officer believes "just aren't right" regardless of criminal behavior. It's a crime or it isn't. I suppose you are of the opinion that law enforcement should arrest everyone and let the lawyers sort it out.

I never worked that way. Your discomfort was not a reason for me to intervene unless your discomfort was a result of a criminal violation of the law.

[customloaded]

There is a movie called "End of Watch." Fairly new movie about cops in LA. The point of this post is please rent, buy, or some how or another, watch the first 45 seconds of the movie.

The officer says "I the police. I enforce the law. I will arrest you. I did not write the law. I might not agree with the law. But I will enforce the law."

See how that opening statement fits into your hypothetical world of make believe law? No law, no crime, no arrest, no nothing.

CL

[DavidTM]

Hey dude

I think it's pretty clear to most people with common sense and any shred of concern about firearm safety, that discharging firearms in the yard of a residential neighborhood of a townhouse where all the houses are close together and connected, with people nearby, with or withot consuming alcohol (specifically in this case with alcohol consumption), is reckless under any circumstances. I think that any cop lame enough to say sorry that's a local ordinance and we don't enforce those so we can't get involved until someone gets shot is equally irresponsible.

You can make all the excuses you want and insert all the what ifs you want but I'll wager if it was your neighbor firing off guns in the vacinity of your and family you would be singing a much different tune.

No. I can pretty much tell you that I would....and I have called my local police department when some ass-hat has shot a rifle behind my house. Of course, my local police guy who showed up happen to graduate high school with the fellow who took a shot at the doe that was standing on my property....and he missed (How he missed a 40 yard shot tells you the time he spent at a range) and the ass-hat was inside the 150 yard safety zone. I won't mention that the rifle was pointed at my home, but there was a 30 foot bank he shot into as a backstop so I knew I was fairly safe. (It was my 30 foot bank of course).

You can pretty much figure out how this turned out, but I wasn't looking to fry this idiot. I just wanted him to never hunt behind my home again with a high powered rifle. Bow or crossbow....not a problem. Rifle....BIG problem.

Now, had this been a target practice faced towards my house....different matter. But just over the hill from me I hear target 22's go off in the summer about 2 to 3 nights a week. In 7 years nobody's died yet.

Oh, I'm not the one shooting.

And BTW....exactly what do you want the PSP to do? It's not their job to enforce local ordinance. If there is a local ordnance concerning shooting ranges, then call the local cops. Why is that concept tough to understand?

Dave

[DavidTM]

Hmmm. Lets read the original post.



As you may know many townships in the State have no local police. In those towns the ONLY police are the PSP and that makes them them the only local cops available. What I want them to do is not say "Someone else's problem"'and walk away and wait until someone is shot.

If these people can't depend on their only responder to show up and stop someone who has been drinking from firing a gun about 10 feet away from their home and family then really what good are the cops at all?

Then just stomp on down to every township meeting and keep screaming at your township commissioners that you want and need a local police force to keep your local township enacted laws in force. Oh, and be prepared for a property tax hike to pay for that.

Because quite frankly, I'm tired of paying State taxes so that the PSP have to "cover" your local township for police and law enforcement. Where I live I pay township taxes that pay for our township police.

So.....put up or shut up.

Dave

[FormerPaConstable]

The 'firing line' of persons who were target shooting, soberly, were Allentown police officers who were meeting after work, and two gun dealers, 5 times a year...hardly a threat to good order. The borough was at least 2,000' away at 9:00 from the direction we were shooting...which also was inline with the successive other quarries that comprise the borough's 240 acres...almost entirely rural. If you look at Chapman Borough from Google Earth, you'll recognize that there's more vacant land than occupied by the homeowners by 10 to 1.