Bucks county courthouse carry minor incident

[jkroner659]

I was making a delivery to bucks county courthouse in Doylestown today. The first time I made a delivery armed, everything went smooth, I told the security(I am guessing)guy as soon as I walked in I needed to use their gun lockers since I was carrying, he then called over the police officer, who took me around and into the locker storage area, she let me disarm and put it in the locker, and everything went smooth.

Today, I did the same thing, as soon as I walked in, I told the security guy I needed to secure a firearm in their lockers. He paused for a few seconds(thinking of what to do apparently) and then asked for my "ID", I assumed he meant LTCF so let him see it. He gave it back to me and told me to walk through the metal detector after I emptied my pockets...(at this point I am thinking this guy is just plain retarded, I just told this man I am armed and he is telling me to walk through the metal detector...or maybe he thinks I am allowed to carry in the courthouse, which I am not). So I followed his questionable request to walk through the metal detector, I heard a beep and the real police officer 10 feet in front of me says you are beeping bigtime, I then in a firm voice told this officer that I just told the security guy I was armed!

She got a very upset look on her face, politely asked me to turn around and go back through the detector and wait. She then rips the security guy a new one in front of maybe 20 people, I am just standing there with my head down, that is how angry she was with him! She then let me secure my firearm told me to go back through the detector, so I place all my crap in my pockets in a bin and the guy sent it through and put my cell phone in another bin, my cell phone never came out. At this point the police officer could tell I was getting pissed when the guy told me well it never came out and just stood there. She asked what the problem was and only at that time the security guy reached his hand in the machine and got my cell phone and gave it to me. After I was done making my delivery, I went back down to the lobby, and me and the officer went to the gun locker, I got my gun and was on my way.

Before I left I quietly asked the officer if the guy was going to get fired(it's the holidays, while the guy made a big security mistake and should at least be retrained, I don't want to play even a passive role for him to be fired). She told me she was going to rheem him out bigtime...this chick was not playing around, I would not mess with her, she was pissed bigtime! And rightfully so, by him letting me walk through the detector knowing that I am armed was not the right thing to do and if 1 other person did not do their job that day, and if I was a bad guy, there is no doubt that any person in my shoes would have at least a 50/50 chance of getting a firearm through if the officer with the wand did not do a good job. Another thing I want to bring up is, this officer, both times now I carried asked me if I was in law enforcement, which is not a big deal, I say no and the conversation is over, but this time she asked me if I was always going to carry here...I was semi stunned by it, and responded "it's state law that you guys have to provide lockers for securing firearms", she responded with "I know".

I almost felt like asking her why she would even ask me that...just because your security guy is obviously not trained, don't hint that it's an ordeal for me to carry there, train your security guards more! The female officer was nice enough though to me and she seems like a professional, however the one security guy at Bucks county courthouse needs to be either retrained(or trained) because you might as well have a monkey doing his job. If someone tells you they are armed, you don't ask them to walk through a metal detector, he was supposed to flag the officer over, and have the officer handle it.

Oh one more thing I almost forgot, when she was yelling at him(I was between them I took a step back lol), I heard him lie to protect his job, I forget that actual question she asked him(wish I remembered) but when I heard him lie to her(defending his job) I did not flinch, I did not say a word, it's Christmas time and I do not want to see anyone get fired, but then again, if I was a bad guy, he risked everyone's safety by not following or knowing the procedure, but I certainly was not going to tell the officer this man just lied to you and get him fired, I am sure he is in enough trouble as it is.

The moral of this story is when you hear something that security tells you at a courthouse when entering the courthouse armed, flag down a real cop and tell them the situation, this guy was obviously not trained, or if he was, he was a moron. Again I feel bad I had to be the one passively that showed this officer how unreliable this guy was, but if it was not me, it could have been a bad guy, and like I said there would have been a good chance(above a 25% chance probably) that the officer with the wand could have missed my tiny Beretta 21a. From now on anytime I go in there, I am immediately going to flag down a real officer, I don't trust their security no more, it was obvious to me they did not train this guy properly, OR they guy working there was a moron.

Again the female officer was a professional, I just don't like being asked non pertinent questions by law enforcement(like "are you always going to carry here") but when you deal with cops, you gotta know how to handle their silly questions, like I did by saying it's state law that you guys must provide lockers, and she agreed with me and that was the end of it. I do not want to be that security guy today, I felt embarrassed for him, she was digging into him deep with lots of people around, stay safe guys, happy holidays.

[mythaeus]

If you were carrying a Glock, the detector wouldn't have gone off. That's what happens when you are a Beretta Fanboy....

Hahaha...just kidding of course. I am glad YOU didn't get into trouble for "trying to bring a gun into the courthouse". It may have came through as such. The guard was an absolute idiot, but I think he's learned his lesson. Good advice too! Thanks for posting.

Al

[LittleRedToyota]

i would not have stepped through the metal detector. i would have said..."no, i need to check my firearm first."

you could have been arrested and while one would hope you would not be convicted, you might very well be. and, even if you weren't, you would still have to deal with the legal hassle and paying a lawyer.

you know you cannot legally carry past the metal detector...no matter who tells you to go ahead...so don't.

thankfully, the police officer involved acted reasonably, but...especially with the security guard lying...she could have legally responded quite differenty.

just my 2 cents.

[WitsBusa]

It has been a while since I was in the bucks county courthouse.. so you're saying that they use security guards instead of sheriff's deputies? In Montgomery County and Delaware it is deputies.. I haven't paid close attention in Bucks and Chester.. but generally, the sheriff deputies in charge of security in the courthouses are on the ball. I forgot a folding knife in my pocket going to court one day.. the guy was wanding me after I set off the detector (which I always do for some reason), and realized I had it in my pocket.. they handled it efficiently and stuck it in the lockers for me.. probably went more smoothly because the deputies know me, but I was still a little nervous they were going to cause a scene about it. I was pleased to see they were on it even though I was a normal visitor who they knew.

[jkroner659]

I did not know it was illegal to go through the metal detector with a firearm even if you informed the security guard that you were armed and needed to check your firearm? Like I said before I walked through, I thought the guy was nuts, I just told him I had a weapon and needed to lock it up in the lockers...then he asked me to walk through the metal detector. If she made me out to be a criminal, you could bet I would have a strong case to sue bucks county(or whoever is responsible), that's ridiculous. If a person of authority tells you to do something knowing what you have on you, I don't beleive it's right that the law abiding citizen following orders would be charged with anything. This was only my 2nd time ever going into a courthouse armed and then having to disarm and lock up my firearm in a locker, so of course I was going to listen to the security guard, he is a person of authority over me telling me to do something.

Yes in the Bucks County court house, they have security in suits as the first line of defense and then regular police officers 15 feet or so beyond the metal detector watching over the operation and wanding people.

[gnbrotz]

I don't agree that it's automatically "illegal" to pass through the metal detector while still armed (if you have declared your firearm and the need to secure it).

I have checked my firearm at three different court facilities. At two of the three, I have had to pass through the metal detector in order to check my firearm. This is even the case at the State Capitol. At the facilities I have visited, the metal detector were in the center of a room/corridor. If that room/corridor was considered "an adjoining corridor", and thus part of the prohibited area, I was in violation be merely being in that area, regardless of which side of the metal detector I was on. Statute defines the prohibited areas. It makes no reference to security checkpoints or metal detectors.

From a security standpoint, if it is necessary to secure a weapon beyond the normal 'checkpoint', it's certainly important to screen that person again after they secure their firearm, to be sure they aren't attempting to sneak in an undeclared weapon.

[LittleRedToyota]

I don't agree that it's automatically "illegal" to pass through the metal detector while still armed (if you have declared your firearm and the need to secure it).

I have checked my firearm at three different court facilities. At two of the three, I have had to pass through the metal detector in order to check my firearm. This is even the case at the State Capitol. At the facilities I have visited, the metal detector were in the center of a room/corridor. If that room/corridor was considered "an adjoining corridor", and thus part of the prohibited area, I was in violation be merely being in that area, regardless of which side of the metal detector I was on. Statute defines the prohibited areas. It makes no reference to security checkpoints or metal detectors.

From a security standpoint, if it is necessary to secure a weapon beyond the normal 'checkpoint', it's certainly important to screen that person again after they secure their firearm, to be sure they aren't attempting to sneak in an undeclared weapon.

that's interesting.

the law states:

A person commits an offense if he:

(1) knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility or knowingly causes a firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility;

and defines "court facility" as

“Court facility.” The courtroom of a court of record; a courtroom of a community court; the courtroom of a district justice; a courtroom of the Philadelphia Municipal Court; a courtroom of the Pittsburgh Magistrates Court; a courtroom of the Traffic Court of Philadelphia; judge’s chambers; witness rooms; jury deliberation rooms; attorney conference rooms; prisoner holding cells; offices of court clerks, the district attorney, the sheriff and probation and parole officers; and any adjoining corridors.

so, depending on the layout of the building, the area immediately past the metal detector could be part of the "court facility" as it could be an "adjoining corridor".

further, even police officers do not actually have the authority to grant you immunity from prosecution...a security guard definitely does not either.

i can't imagine a anyone actually being convicted if they were told to go through the metal detector in order to secure their weapon, but someone getting charged and convicted in the OPs situation would not be the craziest thing that ever happened in our courts.

[chrisjames_71]

I don't agree that it's automatically "illegal" to pass through the metal detector while still armed (if you have declared your firearm and the need to secure it).

Man, I actually agree with you here as well (whats this 3 times now in a few days ?? BTW: thanx for the props). I don't think it is illegal just pass it, esp if you have declared it, as the OP did.

I'm kinda intrigued as to what on earth police officers are doing in a court house babysitting the security staff and why...

[gf45acp]

It would appear that having both is a waste of public $$$.

[ihunt49]

snip:

I'm kinda intrigued as to what on earth police officers are doing in a court house babysitting the security staff and why...

I believe only Bucks County Security and Sheriffs Deputies provide security at County buildings. A friend of mine is a Deputy and I will ask him when I see him.