What is the best "modern" .45 combat pistol out there?

[LittleRedToyota]

Springfield XD Tactical..........it's like a Glock......only better. All the praises for the Glock apply AND it's got the grip safety......factor in the cost savings over every other pistol mentioned thus far in this thread and given the reliability demonstrated in the many tests performed and it's a hands down contender.

i disagree.

the grip safety is pointless...and just something else that might malfunction.

the XD grip angle is, imho, inferior. the glock's grip angle basically forces you to correctly lock down your support hand wrist. for me at least, when i correctly lock down my support hand wrist on an XD, i end up pointing the gun at the ground. also, for me, the XD grip is way too narrow.

XDs are do not get the tennifer process. i think springfield has gotten the rust issues worked out, but early XDs at least were prone to rusting.

[billamj]

i disagree.

the grip safety is pointless...and just something else that might malfunction.

the XD grip angle is, imho, inferior. the glock's grip angle basically forces you to correctly lock down your support hand wrist. for me at least, when i correctly lock down my support hand wrist on an XD, i end up pointing the gun at the ground. also, for me, the XD grip is way too narrow.

XDs are do not get the tennifer process. i think springfield has gotten the rust issues worked out, but early XDs at least were prone to rusting.

See now, the grip angle on the XD is better for me than the grip angle on the Glock. I own both makes and I find the XD to be better for me. Quite possibly this is due to my having grown up with 1911s and Browning HPs but still the XD angle is much more comfortable for me to shoot.

[General Geoff]

The pistol may do it (I own one and carry it.) but the ammo that will is not available to civvies.
Pete

Tell that to Elite Ammunition. They make 5.7x28mm ammo that exceeds the capabilities of even the "law enforcement only" stuff that FN sells.

[NineseveN]

What is your reasoning for that?

Um, probably because I read the opening post...

For the sake of this thread, I want to define modern as anything that was first produced after 1970.

The 1911 doesn't apply here based on what the OP was asking.

[LittleRedToyota]

See now, the grip angle on the XD is better for me than the grip angle on the Glock. I own both makes and I find the XD to be better for me. Quite possibly this is due to my having grown up with 1911s and Browning HPs but still the XD angle is much more comfortable for me to shoot.

yeah, that's why i used "imho" and "for me". it's just my opinion.

the XD grip angle is the same for very close to the 1911 grip angle, so i would think that people like you who are used to 1911s would like the XD grip angle better.

but i will still argue that, objectively, if you are strarting from scratch and using the modern "thumbs forward"/"IPSC" grip (or whatever you want to call it) with an iso stance, the glock grip angle is actually better for the reasons i stated (namely how it impacts locking down your support wrist). i have never heard an actual counter to that argument other than the "it's more comfortable" argument. that doesn't mean there isn't one...i just haven't heard it.

having said, that, though...

1. there are certainly a lot of people out there who are wayyyyyy better shooters than am i who use modern iso stance/thumbs forward grip with 1911s, etc. just fine.

2. if you use a weaver stance and push-pull grip, then my argument regarding grip angle prolly doesn't matter.

[SlimShady]

The 1911 might not apply to this thread, however it is and will likely always be, at least in this country, the standard against which ALL combat pistols are measured.

I'm not a fan of the 1911 however my opinion of it doesn't change the facts of the situation.

[NineseveN]

See now, the grip angle on the XD is better for me than the grip angle on the Glock. I own both makes and I find the XD to be better for me. Quite possibly this is due to my having grown up with 1911s and Browning HPs but still the XD angle is much more comfortable for me to shoot.

Well, you're not alone. The 1911 angle is equally as suited to camming the support wrist properly, otherwise so many of those that compete wouldn't choose the 1911/2011 or guns with similar grip angles. I find the 1911 angle superior myself, but my first handgun was an HK USP so...

[NineseveN]

The 1911 might not apply to this thread, however it is and will likely always be, at least in this country, the standard against which ALL combat pistols are measured.

I'm not a fan of the 1911 however my opinion of it doesn't change the facts of the situation.

I am a fan of the 1911, I carry an STI 2011 and my backup full-sized gun is a customized SA 1911, but it just doesn't apply to this thread and the question the OP was asking.

[LittleRedToyota]

NOTE: I have created a new thread with this post in order to not completely derail this thread...please post any comments regarding this post in the other thread which is here:

http://forum.pafoa.org/pistols-41/41...tml#post530881

Well, you're not alone. The 1911 angle is equally as suited to camming the support wrist properly, otherwise so many of those that compete wouldn't choose the 1911/2011 or guns with similar grip angles. I find the 1911 angle superior myself, but my first handgun was an HK USP so...

kinda getting off topic, but my overly analytical brain finds this topic fascinating...so i am drawn to discussions of it.

this question is actually an objective geometry problem...and i have an experiment that i am curious to get results of from those who carry 1911s/XDs, etc. and curious to hear how you deal with this.

unload your gun, of course...and make sure it is unloaded.

stick your left arm (assuming you are right handed) straight out in front of you with your hand open. now, cam your wrist down as far as possible so it is locked down.

now, with your pistol correctly gripped in your right hand, bring it to you left hand and then wrap your left fingers around the grip/your right hand to complete a two handed grip (with your left hand placed as high on the gun as possible, of course).

even with the glock grip angle, for me, this causes the gun to point slightly below where it should (i can just barely see the very top of the front sight through the notch in the rear sight because the muzzle ends up pointed down slightly due to the angle of my left wrist/palm).

with a 1911, the grip angle is even less...which, for me at least, translates into the gun being really pointed at the ground. how does this not happen for you 1911/XD guys?

do you uncam your wrist a bit? does the meaty thumb portion of your palm end up actually on the slide? is your support hand index finger not as tight against your strong hand as your support hand pinky finger? do you bend your left elbow to change the angle created by camming your wrist down?

how does the geometry work differently for you guys than it does for me? (i am honestly curious...like i said, there are plenty of 1911/XDs shooters who use a cammed wrist grip and shoot better than i do...including people on this forum...so i'm curious how this works for you guys.)

[Dredly]

I would rule out the 1911 as they are low cap and similar accuracy can be achieved with a polymer dual stack. (plus they were made LONG before 1970)

Non-metal parts resist rusting better and will operate better in sand, water, and just all around abuse.

My choice would be either an XD Service or an XD Tactical.

that "shouldn't have a grip safety" kind of ruins the 1911 crowd too doesn't it?