Allegheny County SWAT not happy campers

[Trooper]

"Why? Because all too often, when the rubber meets the road, the police have proven to be either ignorant of, or willing to ignore the law. Katrina is a prime example, as are the many instances of cops being completely in the dark about firearms laws in their jurisdictions."


Katrina was a fuck-up on every level from the people who didn't heed the warnings to leave to FEMA's response. I wasn't in New Orleans but I can tell you that from what I saw in Biloxi, there wasn't any problem with LE taking private civilian firearms. AGAIN... it's the same old story, using the crimes of a few to bash the entire group.
On a side note, I thought it was cool to see National Guard troops walking around walmart with M4's. You conspiracy theory types might not agree but it was the only time I felt truly safe while I was there.

I am not attacking all LEO at all, I was just pointing out some rationale why people may have issues with some. My BIL is full-time SWAT at a very large police department near Denver. Of all the things they do, they are most concerned running the range during qualifications. The average cop is not competent with firearms and I think the point of the OP is, it's not a good idea to have SWAT-like units in departments that don't have the resources to adequately train them.

[bpvet]

"Why? Because all too often, when the rubber meets the road, the police have proven to be either ignorant of, or willing to ignore the law. Katrina is a prime example, as are the many instances of cops being completely in the dark about firearms laws in their jurisdictions."


Katrina was a fuck-up on every level from the people who didn't heed the warnings to leave to FEMA's response. I wasn't in New Orleans but I can tell you that from what I saw in Biloxi, there wasn't any problem with LE taking private civilian firearms. AGAIN... it's the same old story, using the crimes of a few to bash the entire group.
On a side note, I thought it was cool to see National Guard troops walking around walmart with M4's. You conspiracy theory types might not agree but it was the only time I felt truly safe while I was there.

WTF? No problem taking civilian firearms. You are really stuck on yourself. And, I do not believe for an instant you are 2A friendly.

This thread was about one agency getting kicked in the nuts because they were stupid and stuck on themselves and their funding was taken away, not about you.

[jpavoncello]

WTF? No problem taking civilian firearms. You are really stuck on yourself. And, I do not believe for an instant you are 2A friendly.

This thread was about one agency getting kicked in the nuts because they were stupid and stuck on themselves and their funding was taken away, not about you.

wow, where did that come from? You must have misunderstood what I said. I said I didn't see, or hear of any LEO taking firearms from civilians in Biloxi, never said a thing about supporting them taking guns. As for not being 2A friendly, I'm not even going to comment on that. (edited because I got an attitude and said something I shouldn't have.)

[bpvet]

wow, where did that come from? You must have misunderstood what I said. I said I didn't see, or hear of any LEO taking firearms from civilians in Biloxi, never said a thing about supporting them taking guns. As for not being 2A friendly, I'm not even going to comment on that. (edited because I got an attitude and said something I shouldn't have.)

Sounded like you didn't see a problem taking civilian firearms. My apology.

The only officers I've ever see at a pro 2A rally were State Police and Philly Police and they were NOT pro 2A. So does that mean you and all the officers you know will show up at the next rally in uniform and support 2A?

Control is everything.

[Mosinshooter762]

I could not agree more!!! I too am tired of the cop bashing!! If this forum is all about freedom and rights, why all the negativity about those who are trying to protect them?? Cops are the good guys, remember? There will be some bad ones in ANY profession but the good far outweigh the bad in local law enforcement. I am honored to have spent a career in LE and have served with some courageous men and women with more integrity than any of the "bashers" in this forum. I'm also tired of anyone who speaks against "Open Carry", on this Forum, as being viewed as a communist!! I have YET to hear a logical rationale why as to why it's necessary. Yes, it is legal, but why the need to openly carry? Won't a concealed weapon be just as deadly? It's the NEGATIVE attention which hurts all gun owners. I'm sure I will be once again "counselled" regarding this post. But hey, we are all entitled to freedom of speech, right ?

I don't know what your speaking of when you talk about cop 'bashing'. No body is physically assaulting another person in this room. I haven't read anyone saying that you shouldn't have had a a career in Law Enforcement. Just like if someone in the forums was alerting about a particular rude car salesmen tactic it doesn't mean that they want all PAFOA car salesmen to give up their career. This concern about no-knock searches is far more about being rude, it is about life, and death. All I have read is concern about certain police SWAT team tactics. I don't see the concern about the safety of private citizens, and police in the use of no-knock warrants as against LEOs. As far as the right to police protection, I do know that the courts have ruled that a particular citizen has no right of protection from the police.

[Pa. Patriot]

There seems to be a small faction of LE that think that criticizing LEO's, even when they fuck up, is "cop bashing". Whatever.

As for "turkeyduster", he is overreacting to this post:
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...tml#post520524
Just as he did with the PM's he sent me.

As you can see, I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with whining today.

[Mtbkski]

I was an LEO for 4 years. We are probably the least prepared people for the jobs we partake of. The training we take packs a lot of stuff into a very short time. Then, your given a gun, ride with someone for a while, and TA DA. Your a full time LEO.

When was the last time you actually read the PA. Crimes Code. It goes on and on and..... And then the Vehicle Codes....... No, most LEO's really don't understand all the laws that they are expect by the common public to enforce. Go ask a couple cops in your town if OPEN CARRY is legal. I bet most tell you no.

As for training. If your police dept does any kind of training, consider yourself one of the lucky ones. The poor training is due to limited funding. Not the officers desire to. Even though that to is the case.

Most LEO's I know or that I worked with, couldn't shoot worth a darn. Just enough to Qualify for that once a year shoot. They were some of the worst shots around. Don't judge all cops by your cop buddy. Try asking if you can tag along the next time the "whole Department" is qualifying. That will be an eye opener for you.

It isn't COP BASHING. If your son was arrested for something, and it wasn't illegal. You would have a heart attack and be madder than h*ll that they arrested him. They are the POLICE. They are suppose to know the law. NOT arrest your son for something that isn't illegal.

And that is why we get P.O. at LEO that think that "What they Think" is "How it Is." Don't matter if they are right or not.

And yes, MILITARY GEAR is just as much a psychological part of police enforcement as me or you showing up with some. A good Mini 14 would serve them fine. But they all want the AR with collapsible stock, short barrels, big magazines, red dot sights (You could put that on a mini-14). Why, cause they look mean and nasty. And that may win them seconds when the SHTF.

Lets face it. See someone with an Mini 14. And you check him out. See someone with a AR 15 dressed as a Evil Black Rifle, and you stop and stare.

This is not COP BASHING. It is a reality check.

[Emptymag]

I'm no "cop basher"... not by a long shot.

I just see the trend to arm/equip the police "military style", as a slow creep towards a place I don't want to see this country headed.

Methinks if I don't want to see it, I had best close my eyes, cuz it's a-comin'.


Sadly, those of you in law enforcement get shit on by "everyone", and I realize that, but creating more and more "militaristic units" isn't going to win you any friends.

I wish I had more time to dig into this more, but I don't...
sorry. Label me if you will... it's the internet, and it's not easy to communicate clearly.

If it helps, we are planning to write a letter to our local dept., to praise an officer who "stepped up" and took control of a potentially ugly situation the other day. His actions made my wife feel "safe, and protected".
His handling of the situation warranted praise, and he shall receive it.

[Philadelphia]

Go ask a couple cops in your town if OPEN CARRY is legal. I bet most tell you no.

LoL. Open carry in public, OMG call SWAT!!! Lol. Last week I had basically a roomful of suburban cops tell me that carrying an unconcealed gun inside your own home without a LTCF is illegal. Okey Dokey ladies and gents, see you in court.

[pirateron]

When was the last time you actually read the PA. Crimes Code. It goes on and on and..... And then the Vehicle Codes....... No, most LEO's really don't understand all the laws that they are expect by the common public to enforce. Go ask a couple cops in your town if OPEN CARRY is legal. I bet most tell you no.

This, right here, is the main problem. TOO MANY LAWS!!!! Judges have people to look up other cases for their rulings. Lawyers have people to do the same. po-po have themselves out on the street and have to make instant decisions. There are too many laws and the po-po have too much authority when trying to enforce those laws.



As for training. If your police dept does any kind of training, consider yourself one of the lucky ones. The poor training is due to limited funding. Not the officers desire to. Even though that to is the case.

Too much $$$ is being spent to outfit the SWAT teams (OP). And speaking from my limited knowledge, most small community govts and cleos are a little corrupt with the spending of the money they DO get. Not saying all, but 'round these here parts, it is fact.


Most LEO's I know or that I worked with, couldn't shoot worth a darn. Just enough to Qualify for that once a year shoot. They were some of the worst shots around. Don't judge all cops by your cop buddy. Try asking if you can tag along the next time the "whole Department" is qualifying. That will be an eye opener for you.

Can't shoot, can't run, but can stand down at the local gas station for an hour drinking free coffee. Our hired guns here have an officer whos back is so bad he can't stand up straight. What good is he if the SHTF?

This is not COP BASHING. It is a reality check.

Hard to respect ALL when there are so many bad apples. Hard to respect professional afletes when so many are being arrested. Fair? No. just real.