About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA

[MaDuece]

you are attempting to apply logic to a situation where none was used to create the rules we are operating under

I am attempting to use logic to see why ppl keep calling it a record of sales database when it is in fact a registration database and is used as such.

It appears to come back to a "feel good use of words" simantics?

We can't fight it so lets give it a name that makes ppl feel better about what it realy is?

[Curmudgeon]

I am attempting to use logic to see why ppl keep calling it a record of sales database when it is in fact a registration database and is used as such.

It appears to come back to a "feel good use of words" simantics?

We can't fight it so lets give it a name that makes ppl feel better about what it realy is?

It is a fact that it is a record of sale database, that has been misused as a registry, illegally, by numerous LEAs across the state.

Calling it a registry just plays into their hands, and is just as intellectually dishonest.

The PA Attorney General and the PA Supreme Court have said that the Record of Sale Database can not be used as a registry because of the many ways to legally be in possession of a firearm without any paperwork or registration involved.

[normanvin]

I am attempting to use logic to see why ppl keep calling it a record of sales database when it is in fact a registration database and is used as such.

It appears to come back to a "feel good use of words" simantics?

We can't fight it so lets give it a name that makes ppl feel better about what it realy is?

The reason it is called a sales data base is because the law itself states there can be no registration. That is the law not my opinion. There are several ways for a gun to be legally owned in Pa. and not be in this data base. And as someone said there are ways for the gun to be associated to the wrong person legally.

[Pa. Patriot]

I am attempting to use logic to see why ppl keep calling it a record of sales database when it is in fact a registration database and is used as such.

It appears to come back to a "feel good use of words" simantics?

We can't fight it so lets give it a name that makes ppl feel better about what it realy is?

It has absolutely nothing to do with "feel good", it is not a registry because the PASC has ruled as such. Since it does not contain all legally owned handguns in Pa and you have no duty for your gun to be in it, and there are legal ways to own a handgun in Pa. that do not place your gun on it, it can not ever be a "registry".

There is still a problem, such as the prohibition on record retention by the state for more than 72hours, police using the database of SP4-113's as a registry, etc, etc... But the thread I linked earlier is a better place to discuss those things.

The gentleman's Q has been answered. Please continue the "registry v database" discussion here:
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/414...nsfers-pa.html
Where it is already past this point in the discourse , IE: really no sense in re-hashing it again here

[MaDuece]

It has absolutely nothing to do with "feel good", it is not a registry because the PASC has ruled as such. Since it does not contain all legally owned handguns in Pa and you have no duty for your gun to be in it, and there are legal ways to own a handgun in Pa. that do not place your gun on it, it can not ever be a "registry".

There is still a problem, such as the prohibition on record retention by the state for more than 72hours, police using the database of SP4-113's as a registry, etc, etc... But the thread I linked earlier is a better place to discuss those things.

The gentleman's Q has been answered. Please continue the "registry v database" discussion here:
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/414...nsfers-pa.html
Where it is already past this point in the discourse , IE: really no sense in re-hashing it again here

I agree and I guess I am just hung up on calling what I see as a duck? A duck! If its being used as a "registry" then I tend to call it one.

A crowbar is just a crowbar untill it's used to break into someones house. Then its a weapon of crime.

I'll move to the other thread

[DonM55]

A handgun is not registered to the owner. .

If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck it's a duck.

[normanvin]

I agree and I guess I am just hung up on calling what I see as a duck? A duck! If its being used as a "registry" then I tend to call it one.

A crowbar is just a crowbar untill it's used to break into someones house. Then its a weapon of crime.

I'll move to the other thread

That is the thing here. If they call it a registry and we accept them calling it a registry. Then its a registry.

For years we have been told that if you had a conceal carry permit that your gun had to be concealed. That you could get into trouble if someone saw the gun you were carrying.

As it turns out the damned thing isn't a concealed carry permit. Its a license to carry a firearm. And it is not against the law for your weapon to be seen when you are carrying it. And better yet openly carrying the gun is legal.

So call it a registry if you wish. I for one will resist when it is called a registry.

[MaDuece]

That is the thing here. If they call it a registry and we accept them calling it a registry. Then its a registry.

For years we have been told that if you had a conceal carry permit that your gun had to be concealed. That you could get in trouble if someone saw the gun you were carrying.

As it turns out that the damned thing isn't a concealed carry permit. Its a license to carry a firearm. And it is not against the law for your weapon to be seen when you are carrying it. And better yet openly carrying the gun is legal.

So call it a registry if you wish. I for one will resist when it is called a registry.

Exactly my point! They call it a "record of sales database" because if they called it a registry it would be illegal! However, everyday somewhere in Pa. it is used as a registry!

So if we call it what it is used as? Then it would be illegal and could be made to go bye bye. If we side with them and call it a record of sales database then it is perfectly ok for them to continue what they are doing.

Exactly the difference between them saying someone with a LTCF must keep it covered when in fact it isnt a CCL so that isn't the case.

I don't know? I guess my simple mindedness makes me refuse to see the logic?

[cigarmanpa]

Exactly my point! They call it a "record of sales database" because if they called it a registry it would be illegal! However, everyday somewhere in Pa. it is used as a registry!

So if we call it what it is used as? Then it would be illegal and could be made to go bye bye. If we side with them and call it a record of sales database then it is perfectly ok for them to continue what they are doing.

Exactly the difference between them saying someone with a LTCF must keep it covered when in fact it isnt a CCL so that isn't the case.

I don't know? I guess my simple mindedness makes me refuse to see the logic?

in reality the cops call it a registry everywhere but in court

[MaDuece]

in reality the cops call it a registry everywhere but in court

Sure enough!

It's used as one everyday!