About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA

[soap]

"It's not a motorcycle baby its a chopper"

[puddy]

SWIM was recently illegally detained, searched and firearm seized (SWIM DID NOT CONSENT Search & seizure or anything). The police also illegally came onto private property because they saw a bulge in SWIM's shirt only. SWIM had his Conceal Carry License on him and was NOT charged with a crime. The police said that they couldn't find who the gun was registered to in their system. In the end the police took the gun to an evidence storage facility. SWIM's grandfather gifted the firearm to him (signed papers to show this). I guess no one knows how/if it was transferred, but from grandpa to grandson shouldn't need a transfer right? It was a colt 1911. The grandfather lives in a neighboring state if that effects this at all. Any info greatly appreciated!

[SevenMilePete]

I second knight0334 on this one. Please sticky this, the constant "registration" questions are starting to get to me.

Every few weeks in the newspaper, you'll see a story where a police officer will say, the firearm was registered, or not registered, in a story about an accidental discharge, or a shooting. You'd think once, the reporter would ask, when did registration go into effect in Pa.

[Statkowski]

Concerning the discussion concerning the brother-to-brother transfer (pages 15 & 16 preceding), since the "illegal" transfer took place some ten years ago, wouldn't the statute of limitations (seven years?) apply against any possible prosecution of the seller?

[Curmudgeon]

SWIM was recently illegally detained, searched and firearm seized (SWIM DID NOT CONSENT Search & seizure or anything).

Illegally according to who? Source?

The police also illegally came onto private property because they saw a bulge in SWIM's shirt only.

Again, illegally according to who? Source?

SWIM had his Conceal Carry License on him and was NOT charged with a crime. The police said that they couldn't find who the gun was registered to in their system. In the end the police took the gun to an evidence storage facility. SWIM's grandfather gifted the firearm to him (signed papers to show this). I guess no one knows how/if it was transferred, but from grandpa to grandson shouldn't need a transfer right? It was a colt 1911. The grandfather lives in a neighboring state if that effects this at all. Any info greatly appreciated!

My thoughts/questions above, in blue.

Also, a transfer of a handgun between grandparent/grandchild without going through a FFL is only legal in Pennsylvania provided both are PA residents, both are 18 or over, and neither is a prohibited person.

From your comments above it sounds like the transfer was a violation of federal law. SWIM(s) should expect to lose more than a 1911 if this is the case and it is prosecuted.

[JenniferG]

Register:

1: a written record containing regular entries of items or details


2a : a book or system of public records

b : a roster of qualified or available individuals <a civil service register>

3: an entry in a register

Record of Sale is gun registration. If it wasn't the Police could not have known the firearm was not "registered" to SWIM.

[GunLawyer001]

[/COLOR] Illegally according to who?[/COLOR] Source?
Again, illegally according to who? Source?


My thoughts/questions above, in blue.

Also, a transfer of a handgun between grandparent/grandchild without going through a FFL is only legal in Pennsylvania provided both are PA residents, both are 18 or over, and neither is a prohibited person.

From your comments above it sounds like the transfer was a violation of federal law. SWIM(s) should expect to lose more than a 1911 if this is the case and it is prosecuted.

This somewhat misses the point (at least, the most important point.)

Police don't have a God's-eye view of the world, they lack the ability to see a man with a "bulge" that might be a gun, and KNOW that it's a gun, that it was unlawfully transferred across state lines some years ago, and then act upon that knowledge.

When they see clear evidence of a crime, they can step onto your land; they can do a Terry stop & frisk if they strongly suspect a crime. They can't enter onto private property, conduct a warrantless search without any articulable basis ("he looked like he might have an object in his possession"), and then seize property without a legal basis.

What a lot of cops fail to grasp (and I blame them, and their departments, for their ignorance) is that (a) we don't have gun registration, and (b) they can't seize guns for not being registered.

"Gun registration" means more than the govt trying to keep tabs on who owns guns. It means that you are obliged to get your gun registered, like they do in the more Orwellian states all around us, and like we'll probably do under Governor Wolf and AG Kane.

Once we have gun registration, THEN the cops can seize guns that you failed to register.

But we aren't there yet. I could make one phone call to these cops, and if they aren't idiots, that should suffice to make them return the property, as the UFA requires. Otherwise, at a minimum, a suit for return of property and a demand that the court award fees against the department, and possibly even a Federal 1983 action for violation of Constitutional rights under color of state authority. Because that's what you have where cops use their badges and authority to steal your stuff without a legal basis. What would they even write down as the basis for the seizure, "gun not registered"?

Here's a clue, for the lazy and bad cops out there: if you can't cite the statutory basis for what you do, then you shouldn't do it. Your job is to ENFORCE the laws.

I have about as much right to flash my PA Drivers License and then steal some clothing off the rack at Walmart, as you guys do to use your badge to take a gun away from a guy simply because the serial number doesn't show up in the Record of Sale database. What you are doing is illegal.

[puddy]

Thank you for the feedback! I have to meet with my lawyer soon but he was the one who said basically the whole event was illegal on their part. I've actually talked to multiple lawyers who agreed. The invasion on private property, detainment, search and seizure all were illegal. I called them to ask why they detained me or searched me and they didn't even have a response they just hung up on me. They said they weren't giving it back so I will have my lawyer handle it from here. They are just out of control and think they can do anything they want. I wonder what their reports say about the detainment and how they acquired my property as well. They are just being shady because they knew what they did was illegal, I will get it back.

[soap]

Thank you for the feedback! I have to meet with my lawyer soon but he was the one who said basically the whole event was illegal on their part. I've actually talked to multiple lawyers who agreed. The invasion on private property, detainment, search and seizure all were illegal. I called them to ask why they detained me or searched me and they didn't even have a response they just hung up on me. They said they weren't giving it back so I will have my lawyer handle it from here. They are just out of control and think they can do anything they want. I wonder what their reports say about the detainment and how they acquired my property as well. They are just being shady because they knew what they did was illegal, I will get it back.

The boundaries most LEOs operate within has nothing to do with whats legal or whats moral but rather what they can get away with. As with criminals, they will do anything they want as long as you let them get away with it.

They know it will cost more to lawyer up than to replace your 1911, but this is not any old 1911. Most folks don't have the time and money, but if you can afford to fight it then more power to ya.

Go get your granddaddy's gun back.

[New York Hunter]

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum to ask this question, but here goes:

I will be staying with a friend in PA, and want to purchase my own rifles. The problem is my legal residence and drivers license are for NYC. Can I still purchase in PA for my own use? I know I can pass the instant check from previous purchases in other states.

And who are your favorite dealers in the Lancaster area?

Thanks for the advice.