About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA

[GunLawyer001]

Correct me, if I'm wrong, Knight0334.
The way the law is written that you posted.
It looks like...
As long as the firearm is legally transferable. I being the brother of the owner
of the firearm, can go to a licensed local dealer and have it transfered
to someone else?
Just wanna make sure I'm reading it right.

Unless your brother is dead, and you're the executor of his estate, then no, you can't take possession of his handgun and sell it for him. Not if you want to stay 100% legal.

There are very narrow gray areas within the law involving agency, and loans to people who possess PA LTCF's, but they don't appear to apply here, and you shouldn't ski on the expert slopes unless you're an expert.

Could you get away with selling his gun for him? Sure, if nobody catches you, and nobody is motivated to track the paper trail. Maybe half of all murderers evade arrest, too, which also doesn't make that legal for those who succeed.

[knight0334]

Correct me, if I'm wrong, Knight0334.
The way the law is written that you posted.
It looks like...
As long as the firearm is legally transferable. I being the brother of the owner
of the firearm, can go to a licensed local dealer and have it transfered
to someone else?
Just wanna make sure I'm reading it right.

The law only requires a background check and record of sale completed for transfers, exempting the few relations mentioned in the law.

It doesn't prohibit you from transferring it to another person. However, since the original transfer between you and your brother wasn't legal - the gun is now contraband and subject to seizure(also prosecution of your brother). You aren't in violation of the law because the legal duty is on the seller - unless you and your brother knew a proper transfer was required and you two conspired to circumnavigate the law..

The problem is that since the original transfer wasn't legal, all subsequent transfers are tainted by the original illegal transfer. You can somewhat undo some of it by having the gun put in your own name first, but that still doesn't completely undo the original illegal act. On the bright side, I doubt the state or local police will ever find out or care if the final transfer is on par with a proper transfer.

[salmonrebel]

The law only requires a background check and record of sale completed for transfers, exempting the few relations mentioned in the law.

It doesn't prohibit you from transferring it to another person. However, since the original transfer between you and your brother wasn't legal - the gun is now contraband and subject to seizure(also prosecution of your brother). You aren't in violation of the law because the legal duty is on the seller - unless you and your brother knew a proper transfer was required and you two conspired to circumnavigate the law..

The problem is that since the original transfer wasn't legal, all subsequent transfers are tainted by the original illegal transfer. You can somewhat undo some of it by having the gun put in your own name first, but that still doesn't completely undo the original illegal act. On the bright side, I doubt the state or local police will ever find out or care if the final transfer is on par with a proper transfer.

Thanks for both you and Gunlawer taken the time to answer my question.
Over the years, I never carried the gun. Only used it during hunting season.
Seein' that it would be overkill for a carry gun. It's a 454 casull with an
8 an a half inch barrel! Don't have any impending sell at the moment.
But, was curious how that worked. I will probably just take a ride with my
brother to the local gunshop, pay the fee, an get it transfered into my name next time
I see him. That way, we don't run into any problems down the line.

[salmonrebel]

Just wanta add to my posts before.
Only was asking, cause I wanted to make sure of the law.
To find out if it would be legal?
Don't want anything to come back on my brother or me.
I knew, as it stood...it's like a loan. But, was curious if it was
legal to sell as explained. Thanks again.

Very good thread.
Great site.
Proud to be part of the community here. Ed...aka Salmonrebel.

[KG form PA]

If my son, who lives in DE, purchases a gun as a gift to me, and I live in PA, do I need to go an FFL to take possession of this gun? Is it exempt as it it a gift beween father/son?

[Curmudgeon]

If my son, who lives in DE, purchases a gun as a gift to me, and I live in PA, do I need to go an FFL to take possession of this gun? Is it exempt as it it a gift beween father/son?

You must do an FFL transfer because the.transfer goes across state lines and is interstate, comes under Federal law.

Paperless father/son gifting requires that both be PA residents.

[kupitz]

So, after reading all 16 pages of this forum I came to the conclusion that it would not be legal for me to transfer several long guns from my father in law by vehicle from Nevada (being given to my wife, his daughter upon his death). However, at the advice of the FFL I contacted to arrange shipping, I called the local ATF field office in Harrisburg. the ATF agent told me that I CAN legally transport them by vehicle and that Federal GCA laws do not apply in Estate transfers. As long as it is a parent gifting to child or grandchild, and the other family transfers that fall into PA legality. I can drive the guns from Nevada home to PA as long as I abide by all the laws, locked in trunk, no ammo near the gun, etc. So, in the end, you can legally transfer long guns from out of state without going through an FFL transfer! Happy Day!

[Curmudgeon]

So, after reading all 16 pages of this forum I came to the conclusion that it would not be legal for me to transfer several long guns from my father in law by vehicle from Nevada (being given to my wife, his daughter upon his death). However, at the advice of the FFL I contacted to arrange shipping, I called the local ATF field office in Harrisburg. the ATF agent told me that I CAN legally transport them by vehicle and that Federal GCA laws do not apply in Estate transfers. As long as it is a parent gifting to child or grandchild, and the other family transfers that fall into PA legality. I can drive the guns from Nevada home to PA as long as I abide by all the laws, locked in trunk, no ammo near the gun, etc. So, in the end, you can legally transfer long guns from out of state without going through an FFL transfer! Happy Day!

This is true in your case, but only due to the Estate transfer. Important distinction. Otherwise all interstate transfers must go through an FFL with a few rare exceptions like antiques prior to 1895 or some such.

Glad you hear you made out.

[GunLawyer001]

So, after reading all 16 pages of this forum I came to the conclusion that it would not be legal for me to transfer several long guns from my father in law by vehicle from Nevada (being given to my wife, his daughter upon his death). However, at the advice of the FFL I contacted to arrange shipping, I called the local ATF field office in Harrisburg. the ATF agent told me that I CAN legally transport them by vehicle and that Federal GCA laws do not apply in Estate transfers. As long as it is a parent gifting to child or grandchild, and the other family transfers that fall into PA legality. I can drive the guns from Nevada home to PA as long as I abide by all the laws, locked in trunk, no ammo near the gun, etc. So, in the end, you can legally transfer long guns from out of state without going through an FFL transfer! Happy Day!

Still not quite right; the gift between a living parent & child is unrelated to inheritance; if Dad is dead, then his executor or administrator can send a gun directly to you (his heir) across state lines; there's a specific exemption under Federal law, and Pennsylvania law permits it as well:

§ 6115. Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited
(a) Offense defined.--No person shall make any loan secured by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to the provisions of this subchapter.
(b) Exception.--
(1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:
(i) . . . .

(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of a firearm under 20 Pa.C.S. Ch. 21 (relating to intestate succession) or by bequest if the individual receiving the firearm is not precluded from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105.

If Dad is alive, then he can't sell or give you a firearm across state lines. He'd have to use an FFL in your state for the handguns, although you might be able to transfer long guns at an FFL in his state.

[Curmudgeon]

Still not quite right; the gift between a living parent & child is unrelated to inheritance; if Dad is dead, then his executor or administrator can send a gun directly to you (his heir) across state lines; there's a specific exemption under Federal law, and Pennsylvania law permits it as well:

§ 6115. Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited
(a) Offense defined.--No person shall make any loan secured by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to the provisions of this subchapter.
(b) Exception.--
(1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:
(i) . . . .

(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of a firearm under 20 Pa.C.S. Ch. 21 (relating to intestate succession) or by bequest if the individual receiving the firearm is not precluded from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105.

If Dad is alive, then he can't sell or give you a firearm across state lines. He'd have to use an FFL in your state for the handguns, although you might be able to transfer long guns at an FFL in his state.

Welp, mea culpa.

Thanks for stopping here with cites and better information. I obviously read through a little too quickly on my phone earlier, not to mention my overall understanding of estate-related transfers is weak anyway. And I really hate passing out bad information to folks.

+rep

facepalm... "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GunLawyer001 again."