Question about vehicle transport under 21

[Pa. Patriot]

so does that apply to me since I am not 21 but 19

IANAL but since you can legally "possess" then yes.
A loophole of sorts IMO.

No, being that you do not have a LTCF you cannot carry a firearm in your vehicle,

See above and compare to his OP (fathers gun, fathers car)

Also, as already stated on the PGC or a LEO can legally put down an injured deer.

Motion carried

[imperialism2024]

If your concern is for "just in case", why not get a standard pump-action shotgun like a Mossberg 500, and store it in a case in the trunk with the barrel removed (so it's less awkwardly shaped)? Or if you don't mind having to be careful not to go out of state, get a Kel-Tec Sub-2000, or a folding stock AK.

I think I speak for most, but not all, of us who carry guns when I say that a handgun isn't a very good weapon, but rifles and shotguns just aren't practical to carry on one's person all the time. Accuracy, power, and mag capacity are all significantly better in rifles... and power is significantly better in shotguns. If you're set on keeping a gun in your trunk, you're better off keeping a long gun both tactically and legally.

[trevor1189]

If your concern is for "just in case", why not get a standard pump-action shotgun like a Mossberg 500, and store it in a case in the trunk with the barrel removed (so it's less awkwardly shaped)? Or if you don't mind having to be careful not to go out of state, get a Kel-Tec Sub-2000, or a folding stock AK.

I think I speak for most, but not all, of us who carry guns when I say that a handgun isn't a very good weapon, but rifles and shotguns just aren't practical to carry on one's person all the time. Accuracy, power, and mag capacity are all significantly better in rifles... and power is significantly better in shotguns. If you're set on keeping a gun in your trunk, you're better off keeping a long gun both tactically and legally.

Well usually when going back and forth to college, my trunk is jam packed with all my stuff so a long gun really isn't an option.

[trevor1189]

IANAL but since you can legally "possess" then yes.
A loophole of sorts IMO.



See above and compare to his OP (fathers gun, fathers car)



Motion carried

Ok so if the gun happened to be in there and I got pulled over and a cop found it a reason for it being there could have been that my father had the vehicle over the weekend and he forgot to take it out. Not really legal, I understand but it is definitely a workable loophole.

[Mosinshooter762]

18Pa.C.S.§6106(b)(13)

:
13. Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.

That seems pretty clear to me. Just a warning, there is no guarantee with what would happen, as sometimes the men in blue, and the men in black use a different dictionary.

[Pa. Patriot]

That seems pretty clear to me. Just a warning, there is no guarantee with what would happen, as sometimes the men in blue, and the men in black use a different dictionary.

Agree 100%, on both counts.

[Mosinshooter762]

Ok so if the gun happened to be in there and I got pulled over and a cop found it a reason for it being there could have been that my father had the vehicle over the weekend and he forgot to take it out. Not really legal, I understand but it is definitely a workable loophole.

The law doesn't seem to require an "Opps, my father left the gun in his car!" It seems clear to me that a parent or spouses gun in a car belonging to a parent, or spouse with a license to carry permit is an exception. I do not believe in loopholes, only reading the law as written. I must warn the person who is thinking about doing this that the men in blue, and the men in black robes using different dictionaries though.

The next question is, is it required to be unloaded? Exception 13, as written, does not seem to require that the gun be unloaded, although this may be subject to debate. It says about a licensed firearm pursuant to 6109, which I presume means a license to carry firearms issued to owner.



§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license



(a) Offense defined.--

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.


(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

(1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.

(2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.

(3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.

(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

(5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.

(6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.

(7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.

(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.

(9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.

(10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.

(11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

(12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.

(13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.

(14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).

(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:

(i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.

(ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.


(c) Sportsman's firearm permit.--

(1) Before any exception shall be granted under paragraph (b)(9) or (10) of this section to any person 18 years of age or older licensed to hunt, trap or fish or who has been issued a permit relating to hunting dogs, such person shall, at the time of securing his hunting, furtaking or fishing license or any time after such license has been issued, secure a sportsman's firearm permit from the county treasurer. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be issued immediately and be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a period of five years from the date of issue for any legal firearm, when carried in conjunction with a valid hunting, furtaking or fishing license or permit relating to hunting dogs. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be in triplicate on a form to be furnished by the Pennsylvania State Police. The original permit shall be delivered to the person, and the first copy thereof, within seven days, shall be forwarded to the Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police by the county treasurer. The second copy shall be retained by the county treasurer for a period of two years from the date of expiration. The county treasurer shall be entitled to collect a fee of not more than $6 for each such permit issued, which shall include the cost of any official form. The Pennsylvania State Police may recover from the county treasurer the cost of any such form, but may not charge more than $1 for each official permit form furnished to the county treasurer.

(2) Any person who sells or attempts to sell a sportsman's firearm permit for a fee in excess of that amount fixed under this subsection commits a summary offense.


(d) Revocation of registration.--Any registration of a firearm under subsection (c) of this section may be revoked by the county treasurer who issued it, upon written notice to the holder thereof.


(e) Definitions.--

(1) For purposes of subsection (b)(3), (4), (5), (7) and (8), the term "firearm" shall include any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of the weapon.

(2) As used in this section, the phrase "place of instruction" shall include any hunting club, rifle club, rifle range, pistol range, shooting range, the premises of a licensed firearms dealer or a lawful gun show or meet.


I add this warning below, considering the lack of cases, and since someone is personally considering doing this.
*Warning: This interpretation uses common sense, which the police and courts ignore at times. Follow it at your own risk.

[Swarner793]

it refers to the gun as being 'registered', which Pennsylvania supposedly doesn't have.



(13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.

I believe it is referencing the vehicle must be registered.

Be safe (and inspected too).

Scott

[Mosinshooter762]

I believe it is referencing the vehicle must be registered.

Be safe (and inspected too).

Scott

I meant that it said a "firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109." There is the next legal debate for another thread with licensing versus registration. That clearly could have been worded better, but that is probably asking a lot of the politicians. But in this case I think it seems clear what the legislature meant, which was the issuance of a license to carry firearms issued to the owner. I corrected it to reflect this. Thank you!

[trevor1189]

Ok thanks everyone for your input. I will be careful but regardless the gun would be kept unloaded. If anyone has an opinion please chime in, I'm all ears.