Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Mil-dots, EVERYTHING you want to know.

    Is there a mil-dot cheat sheet? lol

    My new scope has .75 MOA dots, they measure their mils as 3.44 inches, and the dots are calibrated to 8x... So the question is, if I sight the scope in to 100 yards, will each dot go down the same 3.44 inches at 8 power? I was hopeing to sight my .243 in at 200 yards, what would it be for that?

    Tomcat, I'm new to this long range stuff, so I'm counting on you... lol My rifle-fu is weak compared to you, and heck, we're the same age! lol


    -Chaz
    I like guns... And boobs...

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Mil-dots, EVERYTHING you want to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chazman321 View Post
    Is there a mil-dot cheat sheet? lol

    My new scope has .75 MOA dots, they measure their mils as 3.44 inches, and the dots are calibrated to 8x... So the question is, if I sight the scope in to 100 yards, will each dot go down the same 3.44 inches at 8 power? I was hopeing to sight my .243 in at 200 yards, what would it be for that?

    Tomcat, I'm new to this long range stuff, so I'm counting on you... lol My rifle-fu is weak compared to you, and heck, we're the same age! lol


    -Chaz
    Hey buddy, hope that I can help, and to probably answer the question that you're asking I'm going to need a bit more info. I'll do what I can right now with what I do have. The "cheat sheet" for mil-dots is basically the mil-dot master, which is basically a analog caculator that works in a slide fashion. This is one http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=131691 .

    Now I'm not sure exactly what you mean about the sight in question, but I'll see what I can do. First off, are you positively SURE that they measure their mils at 3.44" (inches)? Typically 1 mil is 3.44 MOA, this is where people make a slightly false reading. Most people believe that 1 moa is equal to 1", but that is not the case, that's why (about) 3.44 MOA equal 3.6". So if the mil-dots actually measure 3.44", then it's not actually a true mil-dot reticle. You may want to contact the company that makes your scope and talk to someone that REALLY knows, or actually take it out and measure to know for sure. Either way, whatever your reticle's TRUE measurement is at that distance, from one mil-dot to the next mil-dot will be the same measurement. This means that assuming 1 mil is 3.44", from center crosshair to first mil is 3.44", distance from the first mil to the second, and second to third, etc, will each be 3.44" MORE. This means that from the crosshair to the second mil-dot will be 6.88", etc. Keep in mind this measurement ONLY applies for 100 yards. At 200 yards, 1 mil will be double the size of what it was at 100 yards; so 1 mil will be 6.88". Since it is an angular measurement, it changes wit the distance.

    I'm trying to get exactly what you mean about "what would it be for that (to site in your rifle at 200 yards". The DOPE for your rifle is dependent upon the velocity that the bullet is getting shot at, weight of the bullet, the Ballistic Coefficient of the bullet, and even air density. It is NOT something that is dependent on the mil's. I'm trying to figure out if you're asking where your bullet will hit at 200 yards, relative to the reticle view with a 100 yards zero. Is that what you're asking? Are you asking about where you would have to hold for 200 yards, if you are shooting with a 100 yard zero? Or are you trying to ask me how to zero your scope at 200 yards, as opposed to 100 yards? Whichever you're trying to accomplish, you will need to know the drop that your bullet makes between 100 to 200 yards. As I stated before, this is depending on alot of things; you can either get it by plugging in all the EXACT values in a good ballistics calculator and get a good idea, or you can just go out and shoot to 200 yards, with your 100 yard zero and see how much lower the impact is. Once I have this info, I might be able to give you what you are asking for, before that, I don't think I'll be able to help much buddy.

    I wish that I could help more, but I think that's all that I have so far. I am more than happy to help more if we can get a bit more info. No worries about your "rifle-fu" being a bit weak, lol, I like to think mine is a bit strong for my age. I've spent alot of time studying it all, and hey, you gotta learn some time. Hope this helps and keep asking questions, or ask me to elaborate on anything that I need to.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Mil-dots, EVERYTHING you want to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat088 View Post
    Hey buddy, hope that I can help, and to probably answer the question that you're asking I'm going to need a bit more info. I'll do what I can right now with what I do have. The "cheat sheet" for mil-dots is basically the mil-dot master, which is basically a analog caculator that works in a slide fashion. This is one http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=131691 .

    Now I'm not sure exactly what you mean about the sight in question, but I'll see what I can do. First off, are you positively SURE that they measure their mils at 3.44" (inches)? Typically 1 mil is 3.44 MOA, this is where people make a slightly false reading. Most people believe that 1 moa is equal to 1", but that is not the case, that's why (about) 3.44 MOA equal 3.6". So if the mil-dots actually measure 3.44", then it's not actually a true mil-dot reticle. You may want to contact the company that makes your scope and talk to someone that REALLY knows, or actually take it out and measure to know for sure. Either way, whatever your reticle's TRUE measurement is at that distance, from one mil-dot to the next mil-dot will be the same measurement. This means that assuming 1 mil is 3.44", from center crosshair to first mil is 3.44", distance from the first mil to the second, and second to third, etc, will each be 3.44" MORE. This means that from the crosshair to the second mil-dot will be 6.88", etc. Keep in mind this measurement ONLY applies for 100 yards. At 200 yards, 1 mil will be double the size of what it was at 100 yards; so 1 mil will be 6.88". Since it is an angular measurement, it changes wit the distance.

    I'm trying to get exactly what you mean about "what would it be for that (to site in your rifle at 200 yards". The DOPE for your rifle is dependent upon the velocity that the bullet is getting shot at, weight of the bullet, the Ballistic Coefficient of the bullet, and even air density. It is NOT something that is dependent on the mil's. I'm trying to figure out if you're asking where your bullet will hit at 200 yards, relative to the reticle view with a 100 yards zero. Is that what you're asking? Are you asking about where you would have to hold for 200 yards, if you are shooting with a 100 yard zero? Or are you trying to ask me how to zero your scope at 200 yards, as opposed to 100 yards? Whichever you're trying to accomplish, you will need to know the drop that your bullet makes between 100 to 200 yards. As I stated before, this is depending on alot of things; you can either get it by plugging in all the EXACT values in a good ballistics calculator and get a good idea, or you can just go out and shoot to 200 yards, with your 100 yard zero and see how much lower the impact is. Once I have this info, I might be able to give you what you are asking for, before that, I don't think I'll be able to help much buddy.

    I wish that I could help more, but I think that's all that I have so far. I am more than happy to help more if we can get a bit more info. No worries about your "rifle-fu" being a bit weak, lol, I like to think mine is a bit strong for my age. I've spent alot of time studying it all, and hey, you gotta learn some time. Hope this helps and keep asking questions, or ask me to elaborate on anything that I need to.
    Yeah, it's 3.44 MOA I'm new to this... lol

    With 85 gr. Sierra Gameking BTHP, sighted in at 100 yards it drops 2.4 @ 200 yards, 9.5 at 300 yards, and 22.7 at 400 yards. BC for that is .315

    I'm good with trajectory tables, that I know... lol I'm just hoping the mil dots will take a little guess work and time off of a shot... And yes, you answered my question in 2 different parts.

    I want to sight in for 200 yards, which means my first mil dot should equal 7.2 inches. At 200 yard sight in, 300 yards is 6 inches, and 350 is a little over 11 inches, so first dot would be good for around 315 or so... lol Second dot would be around 10.8, so basically 350 yards...

    That's all for a sight height of 1.5 inches, and I haven't measured mine yet... I'm going to have to shoot it, no question about that. Lycanthrope is going to teach me how to reload some of his special Lycanbullets... lol You've been a big help, thanks again!

    -Chaz
    I like guns... And boobs...

  4. #14
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    Thumbs up Re: Mil-dots, EVERYTHING you want to know.

    Tom, you've done a great job in condensing this into useful form! The community thanks you! I'd love to get your thoughts on Countersniper Optics new TDRM reticle. I have found their scopes utterly bulletproof, but I don't think I'm getting all I can out of them! FOS

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Mil-dots, EVERYTHING you want to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatoldshooter View Post
    Tom, you've done a great job in condensing this into useful form! The community thanks you! I'd love to get your thoughts on Countersniper Optics new TDRM reticle. I have found their scopes utterly bulletproof, but I don't think I'm getting all I can out of them! FOS
    Sorry that it took me so long to respond to this post, I just noticed it.Thank you for the compliments, and I'm sure many people will find it funny that you call the write up "condensed", lol. I suppose that it is condensed for what all it really covers, and is shorter than my post on precision rifle modifications. I'm happy that I can share and try to shed a little light on this often misunderstood topic. I'd rather not get into discussing brands of optics in this thread because it is a sticky. I would be more than happy to discuss my opinion of them in a PM or in another thread that you would want to start in the optics section. Welcome to the forum, and I'll keep an eye out for your thread.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Mil-dots, EVERYTHING you want to know.

    Insert quote not working so taking the long way.

    Chazman-Answer to the question of distance between Mil-Dots changing is... No if quality optics they shouldn't when @ your scope manufacturer's recommended 8X. If the scope has higher magnification (above 8X)....you MUST use exactly the same spot to keep consistant values.

    As Tomcat mentioned the 3.44 is different to say the least. Let's hope it's a misprint to make Ranging, and BDC easier. It's easy to verify M-D values by measuring against a graduated target like the Burris or old Redfield targets that are grids. Make tic marks of different colors ('EZ see') on the vertical line @ 3.44/3.6 between marks. Then verify @ 8X @ 100 yds.

    Going to use the standard 3.6. If all are the same distance, but not 3.6, simply increase or decrease magnification till 3.6 between tics. Then mark the scope power ring for a new correct reference. Personally would send scope back to be corrected.

    Regarding Ballistic software, keep in mind these are cold linear mathamatical calculations, and not actual shooting situations using your gear and ammo. There are ways to reverse input info to arrive at your POI, but short & sweet for now.
    Last edited by Guns & Glass; November 17th, 2009 at 07:18 PM.

  7. #17
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    Talking Re: Mil-dots, EVERYTHING you want to know.

    Holy $&*@!!!! I must be a real hillbilly.....I feel like I just opened a Trig book for the first time in a looong time!!!

    Thanks for sharing the info!!!

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Mil-dots, EVERYTHING you want to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post
    Holy $&*@!!!! I must be a real hillbilly.....I feel like I just opened a Trig book for the first time in a looong time!!!

    Thanks for sharing the info!!!
    LOL, it's pretty much essentially what you're doing, but out in the field. Just wait until you start doing high angle shooting, THEN the real trig comes in, lol. LR shooting is NOT something for the the light hearted, it takes practice, intelligence and knowledge. I hope that you find this helpful. Let me know if you have any questions or anything confuses you, I'd be more than happy to go through any of it again with you.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Mil-dots, EVERYTHING you want to know.

    By far the most detailed description of mildots that I have ever seen. You really deserve more than rep for this.

  10. #20
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Mil-dots, EVERYTHING you want to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guns & Glass View Post
    Insert quote not working so taking the long way.

    Chazman-Answer to the question of distance between Mil-Dots changing is... No if quality optics they shouldn't when @ your scope manufacturer's recommended 8X. If the scope has higher magnification (above 8X)....you MUST use exactly the same spot to keep consistant values.

    As Tomcat mentioned the 3.44 is different to say the least. Let's hope it's a misprint to make Ranging, and BDC easier. It's easy to verify M-D values by measuring against a graduated target like the Burris or old Redfield targets that are grids. Make tic marks of different colors ('EZ see') on the vertical line @ 3.44/3.6 between marks. Then verify @ 8X @ 100 yds.

    Going to use the standard 3.6. If all are the same distance, but not 3.6, simply increase or decrease magnification till 3.6 between tics. Then mark the scope power ring for a new correct reference. Personally would send scope back to be corrected.

    Regarding Ballistic software, keep in mind these are cold linear mathamatical calculations, and not actual shooting situations using your gear and ammo. There are ways to reverse input info to arrive at your POI, but short & sweet for now.
    Nope, it said on my manual from Tasco, each dot center to center, is 3.44 mills... I know it's different, but thats how they do it... lol I sighted it in for 100 yards and honestly, I haven't tried shooting it past that. I haven't had much time and money lately, when I have time, I have no money, when I have money, I have no time... Viscous cycle... lol

    -Chaz
    I like guns... And boobs...

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