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December 1st, 2008, 10:01 PM #1
Kaos AR Build #2: Defensive Carbine
So many of you may remember the garbage 15 project I worked on late last year.
This time I decided to chronicle/discuss my new build here. Partly I think threads like these are a great resource of information because quality information will be shared.
I bought a complete lower from another member here for this build. I'm likely going to swap some stuff out and cange a few things, but it will be a good base for my carbine.
So what I have so far is a DPMS lower. He told me it was a DPMS kit inside it, but compared to my other 2 dpms lpk's this one has MUCH better build quality. So it's likely the game where they just play leapfrog with their suppliers and who knows where it came from.
Two things it has that no other AR I've ever had on it were a "tactical" bolt catch lever, and a tactical oversized safety/selector. I had to remove the hammer pin because the hammer spring was incorrectly installed (not sure if it was assembled factory or not).
First thing I learned:
Removing a hammer pin while the bolt catch is in the way is a PAIN IN THE ASS. Adjusting the Mag catch is impossible without removing the tactical bolt catch.
Solution, Im getting rid of the tactical bolt catch.
The oversized safety/selector isn't something I thought I would like, but it's built out of solid metal and makes manipulating the safety pretty damn easy in no/low light (I've been playing with my lower).
This is also the first time I've owned a collapseable stock. Initial impressions are that it's different and that Im not used to it. I will say that maneuvering through doors is much better with it. I'm not going to instantly replace it with a fixed stock but I will explain my thoughts for the rest of the build below.
So now I present my plans for the build:
- Replace stock with a Milspec Magpul CTR
- Replace standard buffer with heavy buffer
- Replace grip with Magpul MIAD
- Replace trigger guard with magpul winter guard
- Add KNS Gen 2, Model 2 non rotational pins
- Add KNS push button pivot and takedown pins
- Add rear sling plate (hook and strap type)
- Add Midwest Industries 9" Mid length drop in 4 rail handguard
- Use Magpul XTM covers to cover empty spaces
- Pick a quality flat top upper
- Pick a quality (likely chrome) carrier and bolt
- Add quality flip ip BUIS (troy likely)
- Add EOTech or Aimpoint sight
- Add VFG (Tango Down or LaRue)
- Add flashlight mount (daniel defense offset) and light
- 2 or 3 point sling
This is going to be a much more expensive build than the last time, but I want it to be something that I will like very part going into it. I decided that for a defensive carbine I didn't need it to be free floated. I went with mid length for a softer gas pulse and more handguard area.
Oddly enough AIM surplus has this image on their site, which is pretty much what I'm going for
Thoughts?
(ill get some receiver pics ASAP)
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December 1st, 2008, 10:43 PM #2
Re: Kaos AR Build #2: Defensive Carbine
14.5" barrel, lightweight profile, with permanent flash hider? I like less weight up front, and since you'll likely need a flashlight....
Also, think now about your flashlight, it may affect your foregrip choice.
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December 1st, 2008, 10:54 PM #3
Re: Kaos AR Build #2: Defensive Carbine
I like it ... I really love that stock.
I've been giving this same thing a lot of thought. This is what I was thinking.
Lower: Any quality mil-spec will work
LPK: G&R tactical LPK
Stock: Magpul CTR
Grip: Not sure yet
Upper: BCM 16" mid-length
BCG: LMT
Handguards: RRA Half Quad Aluminum FF
BUIS: Not sure yet
I'm new to ARs and haven't owned one yet ... so I'm not sure if I missed anything or not.
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December 1st, 2008, 11:47 PM #4
Re: Kaos AR Build #2: Defensive Carbine
Your build ideas are very similar to mine.
I sacrificed a middy barrel for a carbine because I was having a hell of a time finding one, and a carbine barrel fell into my lap at a good price. When this barrel gets changed, it'll be middy for me.
I'm free floating anyway, just for the heat benefits, and getting the sling off the barrel.
While I prefer the EoTech reticle....I'd still say go w/ an Aimpoint.
It honestly sounds like the blaster I'd build, with the exception of the FF...and a stubby length VG.
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December 2nd, 2008, 12:23 AM #5
Re: Kaos AR Build #2: Defensive Carbine
Im still debating the FF though, the new YHM black diamond FF tube looks appealing to me, I might have a source on a middy in about 2 weeks, but not looking good at the moment. If necessary, I will just keep using the 16" CAR barrel I have, and just rebuild the rest of it around what I want it to be. I would just use the longer tube from YHM and get a rail mounted front sight. The gas block would then be "captive" under the FF tube. I like the pulse of the middy barrel a lot more than the CAR. I had a friend mention that I should go with an adjustable gas block and then tune it to my needs, but eh...not sure I wanna do that.
At any rate, Im going to start buying up parts now, the upper might end up getting pinned to my anvil lower, so I may get an anvil upper as they mate very tightly together.
I've got two lowers to play with, just going to buy a part here, a part there until I can build it all at once.Last edited by Kaos; December 2nd, 2008 at 12:28 AM.
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December 2nd, 2008, 12:42 AM #6
Re: Kaos AR Build #2: Defensive Carbine
I'd skip the adj block on the fighting carbine. You can adjust the buffer weight if it has reliability issues....but I don't think the adj block is anything but a liability.
I've been searching high and low on FF tubes recently....I've ruled out YHM. There is a TON of info on tubes on m4carbine.net...I've read dozens of threads on them by now...I'm just not gonna skimp here. The YHM's have been universally considered to be huge, sharp as shit, heavy, and often out of spec.
I've noticed in my shooting that I like being able to wrap around the tube with my grip, so I prefer smaller sized rails. FWIW, I have huge hands, with very long fingers and I still prefer smaller rails. This ruled out YHM for me.
Regarding their weights, yes they have the lightweight tubes, and it looks like you'd poke your fingers through the holes on them and burn yourself too easily. So the lightweight model is a no-go for me.
So for the ~$100 more for the MI or the Troy, I think YHM looses out.
Then when you compare the MI or Troy to DD or LaRue...the DD's are lighter and oval shaped (narrower), and the LaRues come with an integrated QD sling mount ($40 and never coming loose).
So for me, when I like smaller and lighter, for a couple MORE dollars...it's either 1 or the other. The LaRue's are even smaller, have the integrated QD swivel, are built like a brick shit-house, and just plain cool. The DD are just about the lightest thing going, and also bombproof.
The other consideration I had made was the JP VTAC tube with removable rail pieces. Price is good, weight is great when it's bare, diameter is what I want.....but for me, I'm going to want a full length top rail, a piece at 9 o'clock for a light, a piece at 6 o'clock for a shorty VG, and a QD sling mount too. With those pieces on the tube, the price and weight just went up to the LaRue or DD...and the JP has more pieces and screws to monitor shooting loose/ move around as I adjust the weight dynamics/ placement of items.
So, in the process of trying to be a specific but thrifty bastard, I ended up selecting the 10" LaRue rails. Funny, huh?Last edited by synergy; December 2nd, 2008 at 12:45 AM.
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December 2nd, 2008, 10:42 AM #7Super Member
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Re: Kaos AR Build #2: Defensive Carbine
Good Looking Carbine!
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December 2nd, 2008, 03:47 PM #8
Re: Kaos AR Build #2: Defensive Carbine
looks like a good plan so far !
I am going down this same path, as we spoke of earlier. I need my new lower, then I am putting on my middy flat top RRA upper upper (SS 1:8 Wylde) on it and socom buttstock.
I thought I was odd by liking the middy, strange how many of us are thinking that way.
I keep thinking i may want to trade it on a M4, but I havent gotten enough QT with an M4 style to know for sure. I like the weight, and how it handles recoil, very controllable. I cant stand those pencil barrel light weights.
I am thinking I will add the RRA midlength float tube 1/2 rail. I dont like VFG's but I want the front rails for a light.
Gotta decide on if/what grip if I decide to change off the standard.
Gotta research tactical slings.
I like iron sights, dont think I want an optic. but I do want sight upgrades that are easier and quicker to pick up. I have seen some with tritium inserts. think I might get one of those for my FS.
Here it is now, but the lower has been moved to my CMP rifle.
lower now: http://forum.pafoa.org/gun-pictures-...tml#post512543
The RRA rear sight will most likely stay, it is ROCK solid. Unless I go with an optic, then I will need a good flip up.
Cant wait to see what you put together !Last edited by Shawn.L; December 2nd, 2008 at 03:49 PM.
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December 2nd, 2008, 03:57 PM #9
Re: Kaos AR Build #2: Defensive Carbine
tru-glo has a good one - tritium for darkness and fiber optic for daylight -
Here it is now, but the lower has been moved to my CMP rifle.
lower now: http://forum.pafoa.org/gun-pictures-...tml#post512543
The RRA rear sight will most likely stay, it is ROCK solid. Unless I go with an optic, then I will need a good flip up.
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December 2nd, 2008, 04:17 PM #10
Re: Kaos AR Build #2: Defensive Carbine
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