Can a private rifle range club video record its members without their knowledge?

[free]

I would believe in this case, the club would have to prove they are NOT recording audio.

Well, you can take them to court and try that theory out I guess. I mean, I'd have no way to prove that I'm not recording you RIGHT NOW. I can't imagine your club could either.

Either way, it looks like it may be time to drop out of this old boy club.

That does seem like the best course of action.

[oldengineer]

Both of the clubs I belong to have notices posted about cameras. I hope they actually use them. My personal safety trumps any privacy rights there as far as I'm concerned.

[red dog]

A lot of clubs are using them. Due to vandalism and misuse of facilities I can*t blame them. It*s a shame that even the firearm community has assholes that want to damage facilities. Unfortunately these people only do what they do when others aren*t present. The best deterrent is them thinking they are being watched even when no one is around.

[sbmania]

Just out of curiosity but how can a camera help your personal security? All they will do is record whatever happened to you. They can't prevent it.

[Marines55]

Just because you're at a private club doesn't mean you're not "in public".

Well I mean it is in the name of private club, private range, private property. But if what you are saying is true, then I could literally walk onto your property as you deem it public, and you have no right to tell me to leave. The expectation of being in public is that you have no privacy. Once again that word “private” comes into play. By chance are you a lawyer that is versed on these issues are is this just an opinion?

[akley88]

Just out of curiosity but how can a camera help your personal security? All they will do is record whatever happened to you. They can't prevent it.

your right it cant help you in the immediate moment but in the case of dumbasses at ranges they can be kicked out, hopefully before they get someone hurt. the club i belong to recently sent out a general warning that doing something dumb or unsafe will result in membership being revoked.

[free]

But if what you are saying is true, then I could literally walk onto your property as you deem it public, and you have no right to tell me to leave.

Not sure where you get your information...and one thing has nothing to do with the other - but you are conflating terms.

- Being in public
- Public property
- Private property open to the public

Just because all terms have "public" in them, they don't mean the same thing.

Consider the concept of a "public restroom". That means it is open to the public, even if it is on private property. Say, at McDonald's. But if you are sitting on the toilet in a public restroom at McDonald's, you are not IN PUBLIC, and you have a right to expect privacy. The restaurant may put a camera facing the door to the restroom and film people going in and out, but it can't install toilet cams.

But if what you are saying is true, then I could literally walk onto your property as you deem it public, and you have no right to tell me to leave.

Private property open to the public is still private property, and owners (or their agents) are perfectly able to tell someone to leave. Making property "open to the public" doesn't eliminate the private ownership and the owner's general control of the property.

Yes, there is the concept of private property open to the public, under some circumstances, being considered a "public square", which places some limitations on the property owner (thanks to some shitty court rulings), but they're still able to tell you to leave the property in many circumstances.

By chance are you a lawyer that is versed on these issues are is this just an opinion?

It's common fucking sense and generally well-known to anyone who has lived in society for some time.

Just out of curiosity but how can a camera help your personal security? All they will do is record whatever happened to you. They can't prevent it.

A lot of people will change their behavior when they know they are being filmed. So you're right, the camera can't prevent assholes from being assholes, but many times they will certainly discourage their behaviour.

[bogey1]

Not sure where you get your information...and one thing has nothing to do with the other - but you are conflating terms.

- Being in public
- Public property
- Private property open to the public

Just because all terms have "public" in them, they don't mean the same thing.

Consider the concept of a "public restroom". That means it is open to the public, even if it is on private property. Say, at McDonald's. But if you are sitting on the toilet in a public restroom at McDonald's, you are not IN PUBLIC, and you have a right to expect privacy. The restaurant may put a camera facing the door to the restroom and film people going in and out, but it can't install toilet cams.

Private property open to the public is still private property, and owners (or their agents) are perfectly able to tell someone to leave. Making property "open to the public" doesn't eliminate the private ownership and the owner's general control of the property.

Yes, there is the concept of private property open to the public, under some circumstances, being considered a "public square", which places some limitations on the property owner (thanks to some shitty court rulings), but they're still able to tell you to leave the property in many circumstances.

It's common fucking sense and generally well-known to anyone who has lived in society for some time.



A lot of people will change their behavior when they know they are being filmed. So you're right, the camera can't prevent assholes from being assholes, but many times they will certainly discourage their behaviour.

I dont think the range is open to the public. Same goes for private country clubs, not open to the public.

[free]

I dont think the range is open to the public. Same goes for private country clubs, not open to the public.

Yeah, I get that. Not sure why it matters.

The property owner doesn't lose the right to film on its property simply because it's a private club and not open to the public.

Being IN PUBLIC in a private club isn't any different from being IN PUBLIC on private property with respect to having an expectation of privacy.

I'll restate my example above:

Consider the concept of a restroom open to all members of a private club, on private property. Say, at Stay The Fuck Out Gun Club. If you are sitting on the toilet in that restroom, you are not IN PUBLIC, and you have a right to expect privacy. The club may put a camera facing the door to the restroom and film people going in and out, but it can't install toilet cams.

You don't have an expectation of privacy in the areas of the private gun club where all of the other members can see what you're doing in the normal course of their activities, even if the GENERAL PUBLIC doesn't have access to it.

You can be IN PUBLIC, even on PRIVATE LAND that is not open to the general public. The easiest example is your front yard. If you're standing in your front yard, you have zero (reasonable) expectation of privacy. If you don't want people filming you, then go inside your house, where you DO have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

[bogey1]

Yeah, I get that. Not sure why it matters.

The property owner doesn't lose the right to film on its property simply because it's a private club and not open to the public.

Being IN PUBLIC in a private club isn't any different from being IN PUBLIC on private property with respect to having an expectation of privacy.

I'll restate my example above:

Consider the concept of a restroom open to all members of a private club, on private property. Say, at Stay The Fuck Out Gun Club. If you are sitting on the toilet in that restroom, you are not IN PUBLIC, and you have a right to expect privacy. The club may put a camera facing the door to the restroom and film people going in and out, but it can't install toilet cams.

You don't have an expectation of privacy in the areas of the private gun club where all of the other members can see what you're doing in the normal course of their activities, even if the GENERAL PUBLIC doesn't have access to it.

You can be IN PUBLIC, even on PRIVATE LAND that is not open to the general public. The easiest example is your front yard. If you're standing in your front yard, you have zero (reasonable) expectation of privacy. If you don't want people filming you, then go inside your house, where you DO have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

That's a big difference. It's illegal to film people using a toilet or showering.