Legal question about visiting relative

**knight0334** · January 31st, 2024, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by EFK

So if her brother here has a carry permit and while driving detaches the holster and sticks the gun in the console for comfort, and his sister is a passenger, is that constructive possession?

I can see constructive possession if she is alone in a room with a gun in that room. In any other situation, if her brother who is the legal owner is present, I don't see how a constructive possession case could be made.

If she is walking down the street in PA and runs into a friend who has a carry permit and is carrying, and she is standing there talking to him, is that constructive possession?

I don't see how constructive possession would apply if the legal owner is present, because being the legal owner, he has possession. This isn't his car in his driveway and she has a key. This is not an illegal drug where nobody has legal right to possession. And it's not like driving around and getting stopped with an unopened beer in your cupholder whereupon it's fairly obvious you were going to crack that sucker.

As I said, to cover everyone's ass, I agree - lock the arms up. But short of her being alone in a room with an unlocked gun stored therein, I don't see how a constructive possession case could be effectively made. Charged? Maybe if someone really, really, really wants to be a prick. But I don't see how a prosecution survives.

Would love to hear from Gunlawyer on this one.

No. A firearm in your direct control and custody wouldn't be in her constructive possession. If it were the opposite, then anytime a felon merely walked by a police officer would be in violation.

A firearm not in your direct control and not locked up has great potential to be constructive possession of a prohibited person.

**skyjerk** · February 1st, 2024, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by knight0334

No. A firearm in your direct control and custody wouldn't be in her constructive possession. If it were the opposite, then anytime a felon merely walked by a police officer would be in violation.

A firearm not in your direct control and not locked up has great potential to be constructive possession of a prohibited person.

Thank you all. I appreciate all the great discussion and points raised.

It sounds like, if any firearm is either a: locked up and totally inaccessible to my sister or b: physically in my possession (in a holster on my person), then we are both clear of any legal jeopardy?

As previously mentioned, I can*t imagine anyone would ever even be aware of anything, and she is no longer on probation or parole, but even so I have a personal need to know exactly where I stand legally, for both her legal protection and also my own

Looking back in my posts to around 2008 when I first joined, you would find posts where I had just won a rather painful battle to have my rights restored, but was still being denied in PICS and had to file a challenge, etc. long story short, I*m SUPER careful when it comes to these matters now

Cheers,

Chris

**mikelets456** · February 1st, 2024, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by knight0334

So long as she has neither control or custody of the guns OR ammo, both you and her should be okay.

The guns AND ammo must be locked up.

I'm curious...even though this is the rule in another state? I would assume once out of that state, she could at least go to the range with supervision...right?

**ScotsGuards** · February 1st, 2024, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by mikelets456

I'm curious...even though this is the rule in another state? I would assume once out of that state, she could at least go to the range with supervision...right?

With all due respect; that is incorrect. It's a Federal prohibition. A felony conviction is a felony conviction regardless of what state the case was adjudicated. She may not handle firearms or ammunition in Pa. or any other state.

To the OP: It seems as though you have a handle on this and want to do procced within sale legal boundaries. Mrs. SGs suggestion is to get her a room at a nice hotel if practicable. Though that might be difficult depending on length of visit and economic factors.

Good luck regardless of the circumstances.

**knight0334** · February 1st, 2024, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by mikelets456

I'm curious...even though this is the rule in another state? I would assume once out of that state, she could at least go to the range with supervision...right?

A federal prohibition applies in all states, commonwealths, territories, possessions, and freely associated nations(reservations, counties tied by treaty like Micronesia, etc).

You have to abide by federal law first, then state law, then local law - in that order.

**skyjerk** · February 1st, 2024, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by ScotsGuards

With all due respect; that is incorrect. It's a Federal prohibition. A felony conviction is a felony conviction regardless of what state the case was adjudicated. She may not handle firearms or ammunition in Pa. or any other state.

To the OP: It seems as though you have a handle on this and want to do procced within sale legal boundaries. Mrs. SGs suggestion is to get her a room at a nice hotel if practicable. Though that might be difficult depending on length of visit and economic factors.

Good luck regardless of the circumstances.

Please thank Mrs SG for me. I*ll consider her suggestion

**widgetman101** · February 1st, 2024, 05:14 PM

"1. Am I breaking the law if I allow her to come visit me if my firearms are locked in a gun safe and she has no access to them? No

2. Is she breaking the law in this same scenario? No"

Not a lawyer but my opinion - To even get in a situation where you'd be in legal jeopardy would require police to randomly show up at your house, get a warrant or have probable cause to enter your home. From there they'd also have to identify she's a felon, prohibited then prove that she had access to your firearms.

**Spaceballs** · February 1st, 2024, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by widgetman101

"1. Am I breaking the law if I allow her to come visit me if my firearms are locked in a gun safe and she has no access to them? No

2. Is she breaking the law in this same scenario? No"

Not a lawyer but my opinion - To even get in a situation where you'd be in legal jeopardy would require police to randomly show up at your house, get a warrant or have probable cause to enter your home. From there they'd also have to identify she's a felon, prohibited then prove that she had access to your firearms.

You are talking about the likelihood of getting caught. And you are right... the likelihood is so low is approaches 0.

But the OP is talking about the legality of it to ensure he is in compliance with the law no matter if he could possibly get caught or not.