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April 22nd, 2024, 09:00 AM #51Grand Member
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Berks County,
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Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
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April 22nd, 2024, 09:22 AM #52Super Member
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York,
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Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
Well, if you aren*t flipping guns for profit time and again*then you have nothing to worry about. We all know there are local guys dealing guns without a license. This isn*t anything new. They are just simply too lazy to get an actual license, report taxes, etc. if you want to be a dealer*then do it right. If you dont want to do it right*then dont do it. Yes the verbiage is vague*.but that isn*t anything new either. This isn*t a violation of any 2A right, it*s not a violation of anything at all.
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April 22nd, 2024, 09:29 AM #53Super Member
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Philly Burbs,
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April 22nd, 2024, 09:31 AM #54Super Member
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York,
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April 22nd, 2024, 10:04 AM #55Super Member
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Philly Burbs,
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April 22nd, 2024, 10:34 AM #56Grand Member
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Richboro,
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Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
You know that is a stretch of logic. I believe you know what restocking means and it doesn't mean you can never buy another firearm once you sell one. It was the previous laws that were vague and this new rules spells it out that you can sell any or all of your private collection at any time without needing an FFL. Just don't be buying dozens of similar firearms then quicklyresell them.
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April 22nd, 2024, 12:24 PM #57Grand Member
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Berks County,
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Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
We have a winner.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to steve_010 again.
I'm pretty shocked at the responses from Marines55. The right 'to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed' is not being violated? I guess not because the Constitution doesn't say the right 'to buy and sell arms shall not be infringed.' I'm glad to be enlightened.
It's like everything else.
A person who constantly buys/sells/flips without a license, like multiple guns weekly/monthly, sure looks like a dealer.
Someone who buys a gun, then sells it within a year for more than they paid for it, is not. But ATF's new language says they may be, since they made a profit.
And the middle area quickly becomes quite gray.
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April 22nd, 2024, 02:03 PM #58Super Member
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York,
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Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
Sorry to have confused you. You complain about the vagueness of the ATF ruling not being specific enough. However, you define the 2A as being all inclusive and as vague as you could possibly ever want it to be because somehow you believe that selling hundreds of firearms a year and dealing without a license is a right. This redefinition does not bar someone from owning or possessing a firearm. Nor does it bar anyone from obtaining one. I*m actually a bit shocked that some people cannot separate selling from bearing arms. That is unless you can provide any amendment in founding documents that states no license shall be required to sell arms.
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April 22nd, 2024, 02:30 PM #59
Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
I'm well aware of the propaganda surrounding the new regs. Of course in order to believe what you are saying, you have to believe that the ATF is going to be guided by some sort of limiting principles, the same sort of limiting principles that you have outlined. But in fact, there is nothing in their history that shows this will be the case. The entire incentive structure of these agencies is guided by mission creep. Recognition, promotions, reputation, political points, funding etc will not revolve around non-prosecutions. What are they going to do when all the low hanging flipper fruit disappears? Are they going to stop prosecuting under this new regulation? Of course not. Ok perhaps extreme flippers are the target now, but the language says what it says. It's a big net, and that was by design. You can crow all you want about what this is intended to target, but in the end, granting moral authority to the ATF while demonizing the "flippers" is playing right into their divide and conquer strategy. When the EPA was formed 50 years ago, nobody thought they were going to regulate cow farts and ceiling fans and regulate gasoline vehicles out of existence, but here we are. Likewise, if this is not the end of private sales and perhaps gun collecting in general, it's certainly the beginning of the end.
Last edited by TSimonetti; April 22nd, 2024 at 02:53 PM.
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April 22nd, 2024, 02:39 PM #60
Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
What is stretchy about it? The text of the regs say that, not me.
Putting aside the fact that Congress is supposed to make laws, there are several other things about this which are unAmerican and UnConstitutional.
What does quickly mean? What does restocking mean? What does seeking a profit mean? You seem confident that you know, but you don't matter.
It doesn't matter what you or I think it means. It matters what any overzealous prosecutor thinks it means in the future, even after you and I are gone. The wording says nothing about number of firearms or time period between sales. If your motive is profit, then you fall under this umbrella. Do you wish to trust a federal prosecutor with you freedom?. Well it seems that you have to.
Like I said earlier. people can whistle past the graveyard on this issue, but it doesn't make the problems with this go away.
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