Colt Gold Cup Trophy or Kimber Gold Match?

[ljutic]

If you want a long service, accurate, Bullseye pistol for stand up NRA type conventional pistol competition. The answer is NEITHER.

If a Bullseye pistol is what you want go to a Pistolsmith that can build one for you and guarantee the results. Jim Clark is no longer with us, but he trained his son who now has the business. Check Clark Custom Guns on the web or see what a "semi-custom" shop like Les Baer can offer. Baer will guarantee his gun shoot a 21/2" 50 yd. group or for an additional fee 11/2". See http://www.lesbaer.com/comp.html

BTW one thing you don't want is a Series 80 style trigger! I GUARANTEE that!

Can you elaborate on why one would not want a series 80 style trigger?

[Brick]

Can you elaborate on why one would not want a series 80 style trigger?

The series 80 trigger was an attempt by Colt to "lawyer proof" the Government Model. It added a spring loaded plunger and a firing pin block to the slide and a lever to pick up the block to the trigger group. The idea was that the pistol could not fire unless the trigger was purposely pulled. But the additional parts created friction among themselves and the spring loaded plunger added weight and all in all the trigger got ... crummy... creepy and heavy. The system also sometimes added failure to fire alibis caused by grit working its' way under the plunger and pulling the trigger would result in the hammer falling on a blocked firing pin. The system also made it very difficult to feel or hear the sear reset on trigger release. Bullseye shooters do not fully release the trigger, especially in timed and rapid fire stages. Typically they release only until the sear reengages and then they start the trigger pull from that point. This technique eliminates the weight of pull needed to take up the slack and curtails the extra movement of your hand.

Now granted there are some 'smiths that have found a way to smooth this out. Bear in mind NRA Conventional Pistol rules require that all the safety features of the pistol as originally manufactured must work for it to be competion legal. So just pulling out the extra parts and slapping in a spacer block disqualifies the gun.

The standard 1911 trigger can be made as close to perfect as possible and still meet the safety requirements for competition. To my way of thinking you're just better off avoiding the Series 80 trigger.

[ljutic]

The reason I inquired about the 80 series trigger is I have one that functions very well with all factory parts except the firing pin safety block spring that's in the plunger has been replaced from a .010 dia. wire spring to a .007 dia, wire spring and rebending the sear/disconnector spring I can achieve a reliable 3.5 Lb. or less pull. I have a George Madore built series 70 and the 80 series I feel is on par with it trigger wise.

[Torino500]

I’m the original poster. I wasn’t going to add to this unless someone else bumped it back up.

I ended up buying both. The Kimber is a Gold Match Series 1. If I recall correctly, the owner’s manual says “Kimber of Oregon” the pistol has Yonkers, NY on it.

The Colt is your typical Series 80 Trophy.

Honestly, I am more accurate with the Colt. The first time I ever pulled the trigger on a 1911 I had the Colt in my hands. The very first .45 ever fired touched the bullseye. I was astonished! The other 7 (8 round mag) all fell inside the two inner rings of the target I was using.

I put the Colt down, picked up the Kimber, replaced the target, and could not duplicate the same grouping.

I know that there’s shooter variables that come into play, etc, etc, etc. And I am by no means an expert marksmen. Just a fool with a credit card who bought two expensive 1911’s in one week to see what the Kimber vs. Colt people were going on about. Both guns are very similar. The sights are similar, method of firing is similar. But I’m not as accurate with Kimber. I do prefer the sights and grips of the Colt. Maybe that’s the difference.

The Kimber is pretty tight. It appears that it wasn’t fired much. The Colt rattles like crazy and the slide is not very tight to the frame. The Kimber has a lighter trigger pull. The Colt’s isn’t bad. It’s better than my Hi Power’s. As long as it’s better than a Hi Power’s it’s fine with me!

Since I’ve had them, if I want to shoot a 1911, I usually take the Colt

[millerphys]

I had a gold cup, underwelming is all I can say. From fit and finsh was blah, typical late model colt garbage.

Save your money and have one built for you. All you really need is a good tight barrel and slide. The rest can be drop-in nowadays.

I bought a frame and slide with checkered grips for $500 from Wilson Combat (made by someone else), and after $500 in top of the line parts, ta da. It blows away my old gold cup.

[Brick]

The reason I inquired about the 80 series trigger is I have one that functions very well with all factory parts except the firing pin safety block spring that's in the plunger has been replaced from a .010 dia. wire spring to a .007 dia, wire spring and rebending the sear/disconnector spring I can achieve a reliable 3.5 Lb. or less pull. I have a George Madore built series 70 and the 80 series I feel is on par with it trigger wise.

Good for you, you got lucky. My experience with series 80 hasn't been so positive and my solution to the problem, as long as guns with the original trigger are available I refuse to buy a Series 80. It's simple that way, especially since there is more to a good trigger pull than weight of pull. But then if you shoot bullseye, you know that.

[Pete D.]

The reason I inquired about the 80 series trigger is I have one that functions very well with all factory parts except the firing pin safety block spring that's in the plunger has been replaced from a .010 dia. wire spring to a .007 dia, wire spring and rebending the sear/disconnector spring I can achieve a reliable 3.5 Lb. or less pull. I have a George Madore built series 70 and the 80 series I feel is on par with it trigger wise.
Reply With Quote

I, also, have a George Madore gun. A series 80 Gold Cup, it has many terns of thousands of rounds through it and I know for a fact that I can count the numbers of failures of any kind on the fingers of one hand. I am inclined to blame the ammo - my reloads - rather than the gun.
I'm not exactly sure about the earlier "if it's going to be a shooter" criticism. Even before I had the gun worked on, it was a shooter. BTW, it came with a 16lb. factory spring and shot both LSWCs and ball ammo with equal facility.
I have had the opportunity over the yeqars to try a lot of match quality 1911s while shooting Bullseye. Madore was a wizard with GCs and the trigger on my series 80 is as good as any. The gun will still shoot 50 yard X-ring groups (The kind that Les Baer charges extra for).
The Kimber is a nice gun also. I have a shooting buddy who owns one and it works well for him.
Pete

[ljutic]

Pete, When George Madore built my gun (1987) he used a Caspian 17-4 Stainless frame and a 70 series Colt slide with a Kart barrel. This gun too will still shoot 10X groups a 50. George had a test Mauser fixture/receiver to check accuracy of barrels brfore they were fitted to the gun.

[Pete D.]

Pete, When George Madore built my gun (1987) he used a Caspian 17-4 Stainless frame and a 70 series Colt slide with a Kart barrel. This gun too will still shoot 10X groups a 50. George had a test Mauser fixture/receiver to check accuracy of barrels before they were fitted to the gun.

Yeah. I remember that little test fixture. I bought a Kart match barrel and gave it to him along with my gun to have the accurizing done. George sent it back to me. He tested the Kart and the Colt barrels - "Get your money back. There's nothing wrong with the Colt barrel."
He did my gun in 1990. Pretty neat, the way he dealt with the plunger spring.
Pete

[TheLAW]

The only thing I do like about the GC IS the WIDE trigger. There is nothing wrong with series 80. VERY simple and effective UNLIKE the Kimber "solution" (an abonination).