"Civil penalty" for passing a school bus, 75 PaCS § 3345.1

[Carson]

Because it*s frequently done on a blind curve. A vehicle going 10 or 20 over would be an issue. I know Pa. Is still pretty much in the 19th century when it comes to traffic science but isn*t there something in the vehicle code that prohibits completely blocking a thoroughfare?

The bus driver isn*t thinking past his nose. It*s Just like an old timey road block, he*s not leaving an escape route and causing a hazard where there does not need to be one. If his bus gets passed that often, he should use the camera to capture the incident and let you cops take care of it. Or jot the plate number down and report it when he gets back to the yard.

If the school bus stop is on a blind curve, that is a bad design. Otherwise, the procedure should be yellows, reds, cars stop, no excuses.

[steve_010]

I'm with Carson on this one - I think about this frequently since my kids bus stop on a busy street thats also on a steep hill - if the bus blocked both lanes and someone came flying down the street, hitting the bus seems like a better scenario than hitting one of the kids crossing the street to get on the bus. thats an instant fatality. at least the bus is going to provide some level of protection. let it go, he's trying to do right by those kids.

Perhaps the bus stop needs to be in a better location, like not on a blind curve.

[Gman106]

I believe the yellow flashing lights have to be activated for a certain distance and/or time before the reds come on. This is what I have seen myself.

Let me don my curmudgeon cap...back in my day, you had to walk a distance to a designated bus stop. Depending on where you lived and where the bus stop was, it could be as much as a half mile or more. Nowadays, the little darlings get picked up right in front of their house. So, bus drivers have little time to engage the yellows before the reds have to come on again as they go down the street stopping at one house and then the next. This is how it is around where I live. It's bullshit if you have the misfortune of getting stuck behind this ridiculousness.

[icp4life162005]

They were just covering schoolbus passing on the news,said a company called Bus Patrol outfits schoolbuses with exterior cameras to record passers.

They went on all the local busses over night.

This isn't for the safety of children.

It's revenue.

Bus driver behavior is... different.
Proceed with caution.

[cdi]

If the school bus stop is on a blind curve, that is a bad design. Otherwise, the procedure should be yellows, reds, cars stop, no excuses.

This guy does it all up and down the street. I mention it to note the hazard presented when he does it. It*s got to be illegal to completely block the road with a tin can full of children.

[eagleclaw]

If you look at section b(2) of that law :

(2) A rebuttable presumption shall exist that the owner of the vehicle was the driver at the time of the alleged violation.

I suspect what happen was in any traffic offense the police have to identify the driver in court. So even a driver passed a school bus with the the lights flashing and the stop sign arm extended and someone got the plate and description of the offending vehicle the witness needs to identify the driver. Since that is nearly impossible for a school bus driver to do, they decided to add a civil penalty and make the owner of the vehicle responsible no matter who is driving.

My question to the OP is, being an attorney can this law or at least the aforementioned portion of it be challenged in the courts? Is it constitutionally valid?

[DukeConnor]

I watched a bus driver sitting and waiting for a car to start passing before she threw the stop sign and lights. I saw her do it multiple times in front of my house. I'm not sure why she did this. Maybe just to be an asshole.

[oldengineer]

Let me don my curmudgeon cap...back in my day, you had to walk a distance to a designated bus stop. Depending on where you lived and where the bus stop was, it could be as much as a half mile or more. Nowadays, the little darlings get picked up right in front of their house. So, bus drivers have little time to engage the yellows before the reds have to come on again as they go down the street stopping at one house and then the next. This is how it is around where I live. It's bullshit if you have the misfortune of getting stuck behind this ridiculousness.

And back in the day if you weren't at the stop the bus didn't stop. Today they stop and wait while little Alice and Bob stroll down the driveway with mommy, wait a little longer while mommy exchanges words with the driver, and then wait another little longer while the kids meander down the aisle looking for a good seat.

[Spaceballs]

If you look at section b(2) of that law :

(2) A rebuttable presumption shall exist that the owner of the vehicle was the driver at the time of the alleged violation.

I suspect what happen was in any traffic offense the police have to identify the driver in court. So even a driver passed a school bus with the the lights flashing and the stop sign arm extended and someone got the plate and description of the offending vehicle the witness needs to identify the driver. Since that is nearly impossible for a school bus driver to do, they decided to add a civil penalty and make the owner of the vehicle responsible no matter who is driving.

My question to the OP is, being an attorney can this law or at least the aforementioned portion of it be challenged in the courts? Is it constitutionally valid?

Maryland has red light and speed cameras. (This is where these bus cameras are heading. Stop them from coming to PA at all costs. The programs are corrupt to their cores)

Anyway MD used to ticket the car's owner. They got sued. Now the tickets go to the car's owner but in order to transfer liability you have to sign an affidavit that another person was driving, name that person, and testify in court that they were driving.

So they give you an opportunity to claim it wasn't you, but force you to name a family member/friend in court. So no one does it.

This is a revenue stream. Nothing else.

In MD they doctor the speed detection equipment, sign off on obviously bad tickets (red light running where the car is clearly stopped, etc)

It's all revenue driven because a private company takes 60% of the ticket revenue. So they are incentivized to cheat.

[Walleye Hunter]

I used to walk 1/4 mile up route 23 to my bus stop and i don't recall any of this being an issue back then. And if that bus stop is on a curve and it's dangerous, that's not due to design of the bus stop, it's due to the house being built at that spot because the buses stop at every driveway any more. Maybe kids shouldn't be allowed to live in such a dangerous place. If they were really concerned about the kids' safety, they would haul the kids to the nearest shopping mall, where the bus could pick them up and not have all these problems. But that would take some parental involvement and we can't be having too much of that.