More flag bashing

**Eugene V. Debs** · November 12th, 2008, 05:31 PM

So I've never considered myself to be a particularly patriotic or nationalist person, but something about improper flag ettiquette really annoys the hell out of me.

So I'm waiting outside this warehouse for shift change so I can leaflet the place and a guy came out to take down the flags before dark-- so far so good. But since it's just one guy the American flag touches the ground several times when he's folding it. See, this is why you're supposed to have at least 2 people do that. This fuckin company can't spare one extra person to help out for 10 minutes? Well, if we do get this place unionized I'm gonna suggest to the bargaining committee we put something in the contract to have two people doing that job.

My bottom line has always been that if you don't want to display the flag that's cool, but if you are do it right or don't fuckin bother.

[/rant]

**LittleRedToyota** · November 12th, 2008, 05:43 PM

i think a lot of people who have never been in the military prolly don't even know proper flag ettiquette.

honestly, thoughy, i think i'd rather have people fly the flag and screw up the ettiquette than not fly it at all.

the new world order is coming in one way or another. i am also no ultra-nationalist, but the more people we have at least thinking about the concept of us being a sovereign nation-state, the more likely we will be able to resist the borg...er, i mean UN.

**HiredGoon** · November 12th, 2008, 06:06 PM

Flag Etiquette

**bloomautomatic** · November 12th, 2008, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Eugene V. Debs

So I'm waiting outside this warehouse for shift change so I can leaflet the place and a guy came out to take down the flags before dark-- so far so good. But since it's just one guy the American flag touches the ground several times when he's folding it. See, this is why you're supposed to have at least 2 people do that. This fuckin company can't spare one extra person to help out for 10 minutes? Well, if we do get this place unionized I'm gonna suggest to the bargaining committee we put something in the contract to have two people doing that job.

My bottom line has always been that if you don't want to display the flag that's cool, but if you are do it right or don't fuckin bother.

[/rant]

I agree with toyota, I would rather have them flying the flag, taking it down at night and possibly lapsing in etiquette rather than not flying it at all. Maybe the other guy who helps him was out that day or in the bathroom or something.

Also, since you are concerned about the working conditions at this place and the handling of the flag, and you saw that the worker was having trouble, you could have helped him.

Vince

**Kodiak** · November 12th, 2008, 06:43 PM

I bet if you looked it would say made in Mexico somewhere on the flag.

**Eugene V. Debs** · November 12th, 2008, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by bloomautomatic

I agree with toyota, I would rather have them flying the flag, taking it down at night and possibly lapsing in etiquette rather than not flying it at all. Maybe the other guy who helps him was out that day or in the bathroom or something.

Also, since you are concerned about the working conditions at this place and the handling of the flag, and you saw that the worker was having trouble, you could have helped him.

Vince

You are absolutely right about that last part, I shoulda done that. I was "stakin out" the place from some distance away, but yeah, I coulda run up and help. Good advice. Thanks. +1

**Eugene V. Debs** · November 12th, 2008, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

i think a lot of people who have never been in the military prolly don't even know proper flag ettiquette.

honestly, thoughy, i think i'd rather have people fly the flag and screw up the ettiquette than not fly it at all.

the new world order is coming in one way or another. i am also no ultra-nationalist, but the more people we have at least thinking about the concept of us being a sovereign nation-state, the more likely we will be able to resist the borg...er, i mean UN.

1. Not having the flag touch the ground should be a no-brainer. I knew that much when I was 3.

2. There's a difference between mindless, shallow nationalism and really understanding the concept of sovereignty. And as far as I'm concerned, sovereignty is ultimately that of the individual. How individuals decide to collectivize that can go from the tribe all the way to the global community. The level of sovereignty doesn't matter-- what matters is that the people understand it and consent to it. If they neither understand nor consent, then national sovereignty is just as illegitmate as world government, and the converse is just as true. World government would be no loss as the majority of our nation's "citizens" don't even understand the meaning of citizenship. Once people understand what citizenship is they can make an informed choice about what government they'd like-- local, national or global.

**LittleRedToyota** · November 13th, 2008, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by Eugene V. Debs

2. There's a difference between mindless, shallow nationalism and really understanding the concept of sovereignty. And as far as I'm concerned, sovereignty is ultimately that of the individual. How individuals decide to collectivize that can go from the tribe all the way to the global community. The level of sovereignty doesn't matter-- what matters is that the people understand it and consent to it. If they neither understand nor consent, then national sovereignty is just as illegitmate as world government, and the converse is just as true. World government would be no loss as the majority of our nation's "citizens" don't even understand the meaning of citizenship. Once people understand what citizenship is they can make an informed choice about what government they'd like-- local, national or global.

don't disagree with any of that.

but, if i can use their uniformed shallow nationalism to keep the UN from ruling over me, i'll will happily do so.

at least with the US government, we do have the bill of rights which the government pays some degree of attention to.

if we lose our national sovereignty to the UN (or some other transnational government), we will lose all government recognition of our gun rights. at that point we will either have to fight or go quietly into eternal subjugation. i'd rather avoid that if possible...and shallow american nationalism can help do just that.

**TaePo** · November 13th, 2008, 04:39 AM

I once found our corporate US Flag on the ground and in tatters.

They fly it 24hrs with no illumination and despite all weather.

I folded the flag into it's triangle shape and placed it for the receptionist. It was after hours.

I sent an email urging them to burn it or destroy it properly and to get a new one. Which I think they did.

I also suggested they trim the tree that was too close to it. It tangles there all the time and gets torn. I don't think they did that.

I also told them, I am a vet and no expert on all of the flag regs but I believe if you fly it at night you are to illuminate it as well as take it down in inclimate weather. Also ignored.

Grrr.

**crakkajakka15** · November 13th, 2008, 04:54 AM

At work i know security takes the flag down and puts it up every morning. I went to watch them take it down one evening around 8pm ( it is lit up at night also) and there is always two people taking it down and i even herd one of the guards says so the other guy helping to make sure it dosent touch the ground.