Background Check help

[mister215]

Newbie to the board, and newbie to owning a firearm.
Well, actually, I have not purchased. Yet. After going to my local shop when it came to the background check they asked if I had ever been arrested. I have a few times.
Maybe 16 or 17 years ago as a minor for a charge I believe was dropped after completing probation successfully in another state.
Maybe 15 years ago, an underage drinking charge and possession of marijuana charge. Both I believe were citations, and in another state.
About 13 years ago for non-violent, non-firearm, non-drug type of offenses. To be honest, in the end, I can't remember what I plead to. I know in the end I was never charge with a felony and it was in another state.
Maybe 6 years ago I was charged with criminal trespass in another state and a trespass charge in PA 4 or 5 years ago.
The guy at the gun charge asked me if I had been arrested and I assumed he meant in PA. When I ran my own Criminal Record Check in PA it came back as No Criminal Record in PA. He said if I have ever been arrested for anything that I could have gotten over a year of probation, it is a problem. I am unsure of how to proceed or what I need to divulge. He said if I am denied, once a year the Feds come to take all his denials and follow up on if anyone tried to falsify their app and are prosecuting people.
This all seems odd because I was under the impression the shop[ does a background check on me, and then approves or denies me (which I understand there is a way to appeal a denil, possibly via the NRA?). Not that I did my own background check and approve or deny myself.

Can anyone shed any light or provide any more information? And not to sound... however this may sound. But I would appreciate working knowledge, not speculation. I feel like I am having a hard time finding out the facts, and this is an area I would prefer not to just hope to be right about.

Thank you for your time.

[jcabin]

If you have any drug charges you MIGHT pass PICS. However, once the Sheriff see's that, you most definately will not receive a LTCF. Having a lengthy criminal record that spans almost 2 decades probably means the sherrif will deny your LTCF app, even if you never had drug charges.

I'm not one to pass judgement, just telling you how it is.
Someone else might know better than me, either way, good luck.

[knight0334]

A federal background check is performed, not just a state check. You would appeal to the state police on first denial. If denied, the dealer will give you a form to fill out and mail to the PSP. You have just a couple weeks to do so, then they have a limited amount of time to reverse the denial or keep it. You'd then have to appeal again to a higher source.

[ErSwnn]

A federal background check is performed, not just a state check. You would appeal to the state police on first denial. If denied, the dealer will give you a form to fill out and mail to the PSP. You have just a couple weeks to do so, then they have a limited amount of time to reverse the denial or keep it. You'd then have to appeal again to a higher source.

Let me get this right. A PICS check covers the 50 states? I didn't know this. Not that it would matter to me....I never had a reason to wonder and worry.

[knight0334]

Let me get this right. A PICS check covers the 50 states? I didn't know this. Not that it would matter to me....I never had a reason to wonder and worry.

Yes. The PICS check accesses the NICS(the FBI's database) just like every other state that uses NICS directly or their own POCS (Point Of Contact State) like PA.

PICS looks into dedicated state databases on top of the NICS for records that haven't made it to the FBI database.

[mister215]

First, thank you everyone for your responses.

I guess one thing I do not understand is am I supposed to be running the PICS check on myself? I did something called PATCH (https://epatch.state.pa.us/Home.jsp) and it came back clean. I guess it was my assumption that I would provide the dealer with my name, ID, social and a report would be ran and a determination made. If I was denied then I could appeal. I didn't think I would be giving an explanation to the person at the gunshop.

When I was younger I did have brushes with the law, but that has all been a while. The recent trespass was simply me taking pictures on private property.

Part of my confusion stems from not understanding what they are asking for in the sense of, if I was arrested and successfully completed community service and the charges were dropped, is that the same as not being arrested? Is a citation the same as an arrest? I don't want to lie or answer a question dishonestly out of ignorance, but I'm also not trying to unnecessarily volunteer information that could deny me.

As I said above I was young and did dumb stuff. I am older, learned, and I am asking these questions because I am not trying to get over on anyone or create problems for myself later.

Again, I appreciate everyone's time and experience.

[knight0334]

You cant run a PICS check on yourself.

If you need to know if there are any disqualifying factors in your history, you will need to do a FBI check. You'll have to submit finger prints and application.

From the results of the FBI check, it'd would probably be best to discuss things with an attorney.

[imperialism2024]

Maybe 15 years ago, an underage drinking charge and possession of marijuana charge. Both I believe were citations, and in another state.

It seems that this would be the problem.

A person who has been convicted of an offense under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L.233, No.64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, or any equivalent Federal statute or equivalent statute of any other state, that may be punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding two years.

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/c...1.005.000.html

Unfortunately, in PA, even a paraphanalia charge will get you banned from firearms for life. It's for the children.

[gnbrotz]

First, thank you everyone for your responses.

I guess one thing I do not understand is am I supposed to be running the PICS check on myself? I did something called PATCH (https://epatch.state.pa.us/Home.jsp) and it came back clean. I guess it was my assumption that I would provide the dealer with my name, ID, social and a report would be ran and a determination made. If I was denied then I could appeal. I didn't think I would be giving an explanation to the person at the gunshop.

When I was younger I did have brushes with the law, but that has all been a while. The recent trespass was simply me taking pictures on private property.

Part of my confusion stems from not understanding what they are asking for in the sense of, if I was arrested and successfully completed community service and the charges were dropped, is that the same as not being arrested? Is a citation the same as an arrest? I don't want to lie or answer a question dishonestly out of ignorance, but I'm also not trying to unnecessarily volunteer information that could deny me.

As I said above I was young and did dumb stuff. I am older, learned, and I am asking these questions because I am not trying to get over on anyone or create problems for myself later.

Again, I appreciate everyone's time and experience.

As someone already mentioned, you cannot run the PICS check on yourself. You must provide the information requested on the form, and then the check is run. Think of the application/record of sale as a "pre-check". If you must answer "Yes" to any of the questions, stop and walk away. There is no point going forward. The formal check will then query both state and federal databases to insure your eligibility. Also, if you have answered the questions dishonestly, a further investigation may be done, with the potential of new charges. It's my understanding that the standard is being "knowingly dishonest", but in either event, it's clear that you want to avoid that mess over an honest mistake.

My own take on the questions from store employees was that they were attempting to offer you assistance filling out the form accurately/honestly, since you seem a bit unclear on your own past. Ultimately, they (the employees) have no relevance on the outcome of your background check.

An arrest is an arrest. Period. Even if the police made a mistake, and turned you loose without filing any charges - effectively 'unarresting' you, you can no longer say "I have never been arrested". Similarly, if you were charged, convicted and served your sentence out, that doesn't mean the arrest never happened.

A citation is not the same as an arrest. You can be cited without being arrested (a traffic ticket, for example), or you can be cited as a result of the arrest and ensuing investigation.

I would advise you take the time to refresh your memory and clearly document these 'brushes' in your past, so that you can confidently answer the necessary questions to complete the purchase process.

[Robert Kayland]

The PATCH check means nothing, because that's just a PA criminal record of convictions.

PICS will have not only that information, but also incidents of arrests within PA, and perhaps even other states.

The fly-in-the-pie confusion here is that the initial application to buy a firearm only asks about convictions which fall under the type that would prohibit you from owning a firearm.

But the initial denial can come due to other incidents, even though no convictions or none of the prohibited offenses listed from the initial application apply.

(I've always felt they (PICS) should not be allowed to deny you a firearm purchase if you've never been convicted of a prohibitive offense, but the current system is what it is.)

The challenge form you get after the initial denial is the one that has the questions about arrests, both within state and out-of-state.

Answer those honestly and include explanations.

But like Greg mentioned, if any your past record includes convictions on a prohibitive offense anywhere (not just in PA), then maybe it's best not to even attempt buying the firearm. Leastwise not until you can get a good lawyer to look into having said records expunged, assuming said records are eligible for expungment.