Best long range rifle caliber?

[Konsukah_19]

My buddy just bought a place with a ton of land, and he's going to be building a firing range on his property with rifle ranges out to 800 yards. My only center fire rifle right now is an AR-15. Is the .223 a good choice for long distance shooting out past 500 yards, or is there something else more suited to it? .22-250 maybe?

Thanks
Dave

Well Dave, honestly...this would depend on what you want to do.

Also depends on the length barell on your Ar-15, barells twist, and whether or not you reload. Unless you reload, you are not going to get the best type of accuracy for your rifle. You want to tune your load to your rifle. If a 223 is the best you can do, it is manageable. But you will need some havy bullets for that, either the 75 grain Hornady Amax, or the 77 grain SMK. Again, this depends on your rifles twist rate.

If you are going out to 800 yards, a 308 will do just fine. However, do not at all count out the 30-06. The 30-06 with the proper bullet, powder charge, and shooter will outshoot the 308 in the 175+ grain arena ay day of the week and twice on Sunday. The 30-06 is more then capable of 1200 yard shots. It's got the barell life of the 308, and gives you ballistics close to the 7mm and 300 Magnum. But at the range, there is a lot to take into consideration.

[Konsukah_19]

I would go with a bolt gun. Inherently more accurate.

Not always, I shot against a guy running a DPMS 308 out of the box and he was rocking me at 300 yards. I was with a moderately modified Remington 700P. I have seen some semi autos run better then bolt actions. However, a bolt action will be more reliable, and more resistant to higher pressure loads then will a gas gun.

[Ophidian]

.338RUM or .338Lapua

[BIGSHOVEL]

I bought an Encore barrel in .300win mag and rechambered it to 300 ultra mag. I have shot Antelope grave yard dead at over 700 yards 4 times. I hope you like recoil if you go that route. My 25wssm is effective accuracy at the distance you are looking for as well.

Brad

[Koli01]

Not always, I shot against a guy running a DPMS 308 out of the box and he was rocking me at 300 yards. I was with a moderately modified Remington 700P. I have seen some semi autos run better then bolt actions. However, a bolt action will be more reliable, and more resistant to higher pressure loads then will a gas gun.

maybe your guy is just a better shot.

btw, i'm a big 30-06 fan. so +1 on that

[synergy]

Not always, I shot against a guy running a DPMS 308 out of the box and he was rocking me at 300 yards. I was with a moderately modified Remington 700P. I have seen some semi autos run better then bolt actions. However, a bolt action will be more reliable, and more resistant to higher pressure loads then will a gas gun.

Just to throw in some professional opinion on the Bolt vs. Semi debate...here is something worth reading.

"Bolt Gun vs. Gas Gun for LE Operations"
http://combatshootingandtactics.com/...or-LE_08_1.pdf

[Lycanthrope]

Just to throw in some professional opinion on the Bolt vs. Semi debate...here is something worth reading.

"Bolt Gun vs. Gas Gun for LE Operations"
http://combatshootingandtactics.com/...or-LE_08_1.pdf

Gas guns hard to get accurate? Meh. He's using the wrong gas guns.......
Average cost of a gas gun $2100? You can get a guranteed .5 moa gas gun for $1100.....

Lycannotbuyingitthrope

[synergy]

Gas guns hard to get accurate? Meh. He's using the wrong gas guns.......
Average cost of a gas gun $2100? You can get a guranteed .5 moa gas gun for $1100.....

Lycannotbuyingitthrope

Well, considering his resume, I'd say he knows a thing or two about it.
He did state it was a few years ago when he was doing this stuff for keeps...

I hear Vern Harrison is a fan of gas guns...builds them for folks to. If only I had the $$$.

[NineseveN]

.223 is enough to punch paper at that range, I just don't like it's terminal ballistics that far out.

If you want a common caliber, a .223 AR built for long range would be good, but if you want solid kill power at that distance, a .308 with a 1 in 10 twist barrel to stabilize heavier grain bullets (175gr) would be my choice. Or a 6.5 Grendel AR if you want a less-common caliber...

[Konsukah_19]

Gas guns hard to get accurate? Meh. He's using the wrong gas guns.......
Average cost of a gas gun $2100? You can get a guranteed .5 moa gas gun for $1100.....

Lycannotbuyingitthrope

I put your comment in bold because it is about as true as a statement gets.
Now, that $2100 figure I can TOTALLY agree with and believe, if you also include the cost of the scope and maybe the mounts. But, DPMS makes one of the most accurate out of the box 308 AR's I have ever come across. And they are priced JUST right. So...that $2,100 figure for a ga gun alone is pure hogwash...

I see a few things here that are DEAD wrong.
#1 A gas gun is not as accurate as a bolt gun. Now, I seen one photo of a Savage Next to an M1A. Now, the M1A was never designed to be used as a precision rifle, and I seriuously do not know what kind of crack people are smoking when they try to employ it as such. The M1A costs WAAAAY to much money to accurize, hell a rear lugged reciever costs close to $1000 Then you take into consideration the stock, the bedding, barell fitting, modification of the piston, and the higher cheek weld. By the time all is said and done, without glass, you are looking at close to $4,000. A gas gun is just as accurate as a bolt, an AR anyway. I have seen it, I have done it. I have out shot people with bolt guns, and gas guns. And I have also been outshot by both. Now, there are more working parts in a Semi, as opposed to a bolt action, this is obvious, but there are a few things you need to do to make an AR more accurate and reliable, and it does NOT cost much.
1) Free float the barrel, that's a given and a MUST
2) Lighten up the trigger, same with bolt guns.
3) Proper crown job.
4) installation of a flat buffer spring instead of a round spring and a different buffer.
5) Ensuring the rifle has proper dwell time. (This is important, as the rifle can become really finicky with certain loads if the dwell time is altered)
6) Proper muzzle device that helps with faster follow ups.

#2 Problems with box magazines.
As with everything else, you get what you pay for. Standard GI mags worn out with standard springs will not cut the mustard. Shitcan the original springs, AND followers, and replace the spring with wolf follower springs, and CMMG steel followers. Magazines depend on the ability of the operator to keep them running reliably.

Now, out of the box. A DPMS, and a Remington 700 will run in the same league. No doubt. An Armalite, ehh, not so sure. But, the idea that gas guns (namely the AR) do not shoot as well as a bolt action, its just a myth. Where a bolt gun has the upper hand is when you are in a sub zero arctic environment. MUCH more relible, and much less tempemental in function. But in those climates, you need to be shooting with a powder that is not temperature sensative. When dealing in LE sharpshooting, where things are controlled and not hectic, I can see a bolt gun. Howevere, if you are in MOUT, and need to tag more then one guy at a time from 100, 600 yards quickly, a bolt action will NOT cut it.

I know two smiths quite well that are VERRRRY well and highly regarded in LE and in the Military. This guy has some pretty good points, but also, I see some flaws. I am no expert, and I am not raining on anyones parade. Just pointing some things out.