Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now

    So no more Mossberg Shockwave shoved down my pant leg?

    Quote Originally Posted by coat4gun View Post
    As far as a trunk gun goes, coyotes are always in season, day or night, so as long as I have a valid hunting license and the loaded magazine(s) is/are in a separate pouch from the AR, I can carry them in the trunk. I am just on my way to hunt coyotes officer.... not that I would tell them about that voluntarily anyway. I am pretty sure going hunting is an exemption from the state of emergency as well.
    I see nothing on the PA Game Commission site about no hunting due to Wolf's Covid 19 'orders.' You'd think if it was it would be obviously posted on the home page.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now

    Quote Originally Posted by esh21167 View Post
    So no more Mossberg Shockwave shoved down my pant leg?
    Just so we're clear here, shoving one of those down a pant leg will magically turn it into an AOW.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer View Post
    Just so we're clear here, shoving one of those down a pant leg will magically turn it into an AOW.
    How? It's still a firearm per Pennsylvania definition. And just because of where we put it doesn't change the federal definition.

    Also I'm confused about this whole thread. What's changing? You can't have a loaded long gun in a vehicle, but you also don't need any specific reason to carry, transport it, etc. as long as it's not loaded in or on a vehicle.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now

    Quote Originally Posted by jthrelf View Post
    How? It's still a firearm per Pennsylvania definition. And just because of where we put it doesn't change the federal definition.

    Also I'm confused about this whole thread. What's changing? You can't have a loaded long gun in a vehicle, but you also don't need any specific reason to carry, transport it, etc. as long as it's not loaded in or on a vehicle.
    Yes it does. Concealing it "on ones person" transforms it into an AOW on the federal level. Doesn't matter what PA calls it. This has been hashed out a long time ago.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer View Post
    Yes it does. Concealing it "on ones person" transforms it into an AOW on the federal level. Doesn't matter what PA calls it. This has been hashed out a long time ago.
    Thanks for the info, I had no idea. I'm assuming this doesn't apply to an AR pistol since it's a pistol and not a 'firearm' correct?

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now

    Quote Originally Posted by jthrelf View Post
    Thanks for the info, I had no idea. I'm assuming this doesn't apply to an AR pistol since it's a pistol and not a 'firearm' correct?
    It's all very confusing, irrational and not clearly laid out here in a dedicated thread to reference. I see these confusions all the time and the answers are here but hard to search for because they are scattered. I didn't mean to derail the thread but I like to make notes on responses like the one I responded to originally. And of course I am not a lawyer.

    With that said, from all my research "title 1 firearm others" are allowed to be loaded and in a vehicle with a LTCF as per the allowance by PSP. Concealing on ones person could be ok in the eyes of PA law too but is prohibited on the federal level because these types of guns are not supposed to be "concealable". If your AR pistol is over 26" OAL measured from end of the bare muzzle to the end of a fixed receiver extension it's still a pistol unless you put a VFG on it. If you put a VFG on it it becomes a "title 1 firearm other" and falls into the same category as the shockwave. If your AR is shorter than 26" you cannot turn it into a "firearm". Also, you have to have a barrel less than 15" (not 16) in order to be transported loaded in a vehicle with your LTCF so there's that too.

    If anyone feels that I'm incorrect about anything please let me know.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer View Post
    It's all very confusing, irrational and not clearly laid out here in a dedicated thread to reference. I see these confusions all the time and the answers are here but hard to search for because they are scattered. I didn't mean to derail the thread but I like to make notes on responses like the one I responded to originally. And of course I am not a lawyer.

    With that said, from all my research "title 1 firearm others" are allowed to be loaded and in a vehicle with a LTCF as per the allowance by PSP. Concealing on ones person could be ok in the eyes of PA law too but is prohibited on the federal level because these types of guns are not supposed to be "concealable". If your AR pistol is over 26" OAL measured from end of the bare muzzle to the end of a fixed receiver extension it's still a pistol unless you put a VFG on it. If you put a VFG on it it becomes a "title 1 firearm other" and falls into the same category as the shockwave. If your AR is shorter than 26" you cannot turn it into a "firearm". Also, you have to have a barrel less than 15" (not 16) in order to be transported loaded in a vehicle with your LTCF so there's that too.

    If anyone feels that I'm incorrect about anything please let me know.
    I could be wrong here but I thought that the AOW thing would come into play if the device were operational from concealment. The wallet holster and operational briefcase come to mind. I don't think that slipping a shockwave down your pant leg (not a good idea) would qualify. I don't think a shoulder holster would either. The NFA is a strange world, though.

    Bob D

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer View Post
    Just so we're clear here, shoving one of those down a pant leg will magically turn it into an AOW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer View Post
    Yes it does. Concealing it "on ones person" transforms it into an AOW on the federal level. Doesn't matter what PA calls it. This has been hashed out a long time ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Gixxer View Post
    It's all very confusing, irrational and not clearly laid out here in a dedicated thread to reference. I see these confusions all the time and the answers are here but hard to search for because they are scattered. I didn't mean to derail the thread but I like to make notes on responses like the one I responded to originally. And of course I am not a lawyer.

    With that said, from all my research "title 1 firearm others" are allowed to be loaded and in a vehicle with a LTCF as per the allowance by PSP. Concealing on ones person could be ok in the eyes of PA law too but is prohibited on the federal level because these types of guns are not supposed to be "concealable". If your AR pistol is over 26" OAL measured from end of the bare muzzle to the end of a fixed receiver extension it's still a pistol unless you put a VFG on it. If you put a VFG on it it becomes a "title 1 firearm other" and falls into the same category as the shockwave. If your AR is shorter than 26" you cannot turn it into a "firearm". Also, you have to have a barrel less than 15" (not 16) in order to be transported loaded in a vehicle with your LTCF so there's that too.

    If anyone feels that I'm incorrect about anything please let me know.
    I did not know that about the Shockwave either. So on that principle, would concealing any long gun also convert it to an AOW, since it's over 26" OAL? Or does the Shockwave become an AOW because it's already a 'firearm' and not a rifle or shotgun? Sorry if that's an absurd question. I honestly don't know if you can conceal a long gun.

    And the whole idea of federally illegal and state legal also is a huge can or worms. Weed is still federally legal, but legal in many states. So technically, I guess DEA/FBI could bust someone with weed in a 'legal state' but state/local LE could not? ATF/FBI could bust someone concealing a Shockwave in PA, but state/local LE could not? Do state/local LE have the ability to enforce federal law. This stuff is crazy.
    Last edited by esh21167; April 4th, 2020 at 06:38 PM.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now

    Well your LTCF is exactly that. A license to carry firearms as defined in the statute. Long arms do not meet the definition of a firearm.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Per Kim Stolfer - firearms you can have off property now

    Under normal circumstances no LTCF is required to carry a rifle or shotgun openly or concealed, except within Philly on public domain. Transporting rifles or shotguns in/on a vehicle has to be unloaded. Carrying "firearms" concealed, or in a vehicle, or openly or concealed on public domain in Philly requires a LTCF.

    Under a State of Emergency, carrying "firearms" concealed or in a vehicle, or on Philly public domain doesn't change the requirements. What changes applies to carrying "firearms" openly, or carrying rifles/shotguns on ANY public domain(concealed or openly). During a SoE carrying in any manner of any type of firearm on public domain requires a LTCF - UNLESS EXEMPTED UNDER 6106(b).

    During a SoE a LTCF covers rifles and shotguns, and is required. But, rifles and shotguns still cannot be loaded in/on a vehicle.

    It really isn't complicated. Basically, the rest of PA has to follow the same rules as Philly does at any time.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

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