Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Newbie with NFA questions

    Hello Ladies and Gents,
    I have been lurking since forever and decided recently to make the move, My name is Lancelot but people call me Lance.

    I am trying to understand how NFA rifle are being bought/sold.

    from my understanding, Seller has to fill a form 4 and send it to the ATF, when its finally approved, Seller's SOT/FFL files for a from 3 that will help transfer the gun to the buyer's SOT, buyer files a form 4 that completes the transfer to him.

    Please i am here to learn so correct me if i am wrong.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Newbie with NFA questions

    Welcome

    Here is a pretty simple breakdown

    In state purchase from dealer: fill out and submit a Form 4 transfer from dealer to buyer that pays the $200 stamp fee

    In state purchase from non-dealer: fill out and submit Form 4 transfer from owner to buyer that pays the $200 stamp fee (anything considered a pistol (SBR/SBR/Machine gun*) must also be trasnfered from seller to buyer at an FFL)

    Out of state purchase from dealer: dealer submits a Form 3 (tax free transfer) to your in-state dealer who then fills out a Form 4 transfer to the buyer that pays the $200 stamp fee

    Out of state purchase from non-dealer: seller (or in-state dealer) submit a Form 4 ($200 tax paid) to your in-state dealer, then your in-state dealer fills out a Form 4 to the buyer that pays the second $200 stamp fee.
    The general practice is the seller pays the first stamp fee to the in-state dealer of the buyer, but that needs negotiated during the deal.

    *any NFA firearm under the 16" brl / 26" - 18" brl / 28" overall length if its a semi or full auto.
    So you need to fill out a 4473 and a SP 4-113(handgun form)

    Suppressors do not require a dealer involved in PA from private seller to private buyer. Only the Form 4 paperwork and tax paid by the buyer.
    Last edited by Nate7667; February 28th, 2020 at 12:56 PM.
    HGW, llc ~ Title 1 & NFA sales/manufacturing ~ Transfers - Title 1 $20 - NFA $50

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Newbie with NFA questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate7667 View Post
    Welcome

    Here is a pretty simple breakdown

    In state purchase from dealer: fill out and submit a Form 4 transfer from dealer to buyer that pays the $200 stamp fee

    In state purchase from non-dealer: fill out and submit Form 4 transfer from owner to buyer that pays the $200 stamp fee (anything considered a pistol (SBR/SBR/Machine gun*) must also be trasnfered from seller to buyer at an FFL)

    Out of state purchase from dealer: dealer submits a Form 3 (tax free transfer) to your in-state dealer who then fills out a Form 4 transfer to the buyer that pays the $200 stamp fee

    Out of state purchase from non-dealer: seller (or in-state dealer) submit a Form 4 ($200 tax paid) to your in-state dealer, then your in-state dealer fills out a Form 4 to the buyer that pays the second $200 stamp fee.
    The general practice is the seller pays the first stamp fee to the in-state dealer of the buyer, but that needs negotiated during the deal.

    *any NFA firearm under the 16" brl / 26" - 18" brl / 28" overall length if its a semi or full auto.
    So you need to fill out a 4473 and a SP 4-113(handgun form)

    Suppressors do not require a dealer involved in PA from private seller to private buyer. Only the Form 4 paperwork and tax paid by the buyer.
    OMG!!! This is so confusing...

    For an out of state deal:
    Me the seller: I fill out a form 4 and send it to the ATF, Pay $200 tax fee ? Right/Wrong
    Buyer's SOT: fills out a from 3 to confirm with the ATF where the firearms will be going ? Right/Wrong
    Buyer: Fills out a form 4 to get the rifle when it comes to his SOT/FFL, Pays $200 for tax also ? Right/Wrong

    I am trying to simplify the steps as much as i can.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Newbie with NFA questions

    "For an out of state deal:"

    "Me the seller: I fill out a form 4 and send it to the ATF, Pay $200 tax fee ? Right/Wrong " CORRECT, you do the Form 4 (and pay the tax stamp) to transfer it to the FFL/SOT in the other state. Once the Approved Form 4 is received by you, you ship it and the item to the receiving FFL/SOT

    "Buyer's SOT: fills out a from 3 to confirm with the ATF where the firearms will be going ? Right/Wrong" INCORRECT - in this case the Form 4 is the transfer document from the seller to the FFL/SOT in the other state. A Form 3 is a tax free transfer from FFL/SOT to FFL/SOT

    "Buyer: Fills out a form 4 to get the rifle when it comes to his SOT/FFL, Pays $200 for tax also ? Right/Wrong" INCORRECT/CORRECT - in this case, typically the receiving FFL/SOT fills out the Form 4 to transfer the item from him to the buyer after he receives the NFA item from the seller. The buyer does pay the $200 tax stamp to the ATF. Normally the buyer and the FFL/SOT work together to get the Form 4 done and the tax paid. Then the FFL/SOT holds the item until the approved Form 4 is received from the ATF. Then the buyer comes back to the FFL/SOT to finish the required forms (4473 and in PA the SP4-113)

    For out of state sale
    Seller: Completes a Form 4 to transfer NFA item to the buyers FFL/SOT. Upon approval ships the NFA item (and approved Form 4) to the FFL/SOT

    FFL/SOT: Receives the NFA item. Completes a Form 4 to transfer NFA item to Buyer

    Buyer: Pays the seller for the NFA item. Then assists FFL/SOT with Form 4 and pays the tax. Then sits back and waits.

    FFL/SOT: Stores the NFA item until approved Form 4 is received. Buyer then does the remaining paperwork, pays the FFL/SOT his fee, takes the approved Form 4 and the NFA item home.
    Last edited by Xringshooter; February 28th, 2020 at 02:00 PM.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Newbie with NFA questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate7667 View Post
    In state purchase from non-dealer: fill out and submit Form 4 transfer from owner to buyer that pays the $200 stamp fee (anything considered a pistol (SBR/SBR/Machine gun*) must also be trasnfered from seller to buyer at an FFL)
    NFA items bought privately in state can be done face to face. I know people who have bought transferable MGs, no FFL needed. Unless there is something that’s been amended in the UFA that I’m aware of, please share the link.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Newbie with NFA questions

    Yes you are correct, but if the weapon is under normal title 1 requirements of length, there is still a transfer needed through a dealer. Like an Uzi, Mac type, any tube guns, those are all considered "handguns" under PA requirements.

    Not for the NFA reasons of transfer through a dealer.
    Last edited by Nate7667; February 28th, 2020 at 07:52 PM.
    HGW, llc ~ Title 1 & NFA sales/manufacturing ~ Transfers - Title 1 $20 - NFA $50

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Newbie with NFA questions

    Wow it seems so clear, finally.
    I have Three more questions and we are all good.

    1. the tax stamp is being added to the form 4 by the ATF when they approve it ? Right/Wrong
    2. The Buyer is the one that has to fill out his CLEO on the form 4 the seller has to do it for him? Right/Wrong
    3. The Passport Picture, is the passport pictures need going to be from the buyer or the seller ?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Newbie with NFA questions

    Quote Originally Posted by funnypapa View Post
    Wow it seems so clear, finally.
    I have Three more questions and we are all good.

    1. the tax stamp is being added to the form 4 by the ATF when they approve it ? Right/Wrong
    2. The Buyer is the one that has to fill out his CLEO on the form 4 the seller has to do it for him? Right/Wrong
    3. The Passport Picture, is the passport pictures need going to be from the buyer or the seller ?
    1. The tax stamp is added by ATF at time of approval before they mail the approved form to the seller.
    2. The buyer will have to fill out the CLEO section on the form 4 and send the required notification to his/her CLEO. Note: it is notification only. The CLEO no longer needs to sign anything.
    3. The passport photo is of the new owner (buyer) during the second leg of the out-of-state sale (between the buyer's FFL and the buyer). If the transferee is an FFL (as would be the case for the first leg of the out-of-state sale as you described), the FFL transferee does not need to submit a photo, fingerprints, or do the CLEO notification.
    I am not a lawyer.

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