Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default 4473 changes proposed by ATF

    ATF is proposing to change the form 4473 to include the details of the firearm purchased right on the front page of the form. Some are surmising this is because ATF has been taking photographs of the front a form 4473s for a while, but that only gives them the personal information of the purchaser, and not detailed information of the firearm purchased. Placing that information on the front page would allow them to get a picture of the details of the firearms as well, which would give them everything they need to create a registry-like database.
    A Republic, if you can keep it. - Benjamin Franklin

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    next to my neighbor, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: 4473 changes proposed by ATF

    Husseins ATF?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    jersey shore, Pennsylvania
    (Lycoming County)
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    Default Re: 4473 changes proposed by ATF

    I'd be interested to hear from some of the FFL's on here. How often does the ATF actually take pictures of 4473's and how many do they go through when they do?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    East side of the ANF, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: 4473 changes proposed by ATF

    ATF compliance auditors sometimes request copies of 4473s during audits, sometimes lately they use cell phones and take photos.

    With the current 4473 forms, the pertinent data is on pages 1 (applicant info and affadavit) and 3 (description of firearms). Because the multipage forms are known for self-destruction if opened more then once, the draft form makes sense IMO for two reasons:

    a) If the compliance agents get copies or take photos, they get the pertinent data on one page, yes, tying the firearm to the buyer. KEEP IN MIND that compliance audits and the opportunity to copy/photograph generally occur once in three years and sometimes once in six years if a particular FFL has a history of clean audits. Of course, compliance agents can show up at any time, as frequently as they want.

    b) Since the current form is weakly glued together, if most of the information can be captured on pages 1 ad 2 of the draft form (assuming the affadavit is on page 2 of the draft form), and if the instructions are on pages 3 and 4 and get detached, NBD, although in the eyes of many compliance agents, forms that become detached / separated is TEOTWAWKI.

    JMO,

    Noah
    Currently seeking a sufficiently witty statement for 2020.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    (Northampton County)
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    Default Re: 4473 changes proposed by ATF

    I have done almost 5000 transfers in last 10 years and I have never had an ATF agent take photos of any 4473's. Have had an agent request a copy of a form when and investigation was being performed.
    www.EastonFirearmsRefinishing.com Owner/Operator, NRA Pistol Instructor

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Between a rock and a hard place, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Age
    45
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    Default Re: 4473 changes proposed by ATF

    My memory might be failing me, but I seem to remember back in the olden days when the 4473 was on goldenrod colored paper all the pertinent info was in the front of the page and the instructions were on the reverse. Seems like a return to the way it was years ago.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    bloomsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Columbia County)
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    Default Re: 4473 changes proposed by ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah_Zark View Post
    ATF compliance auditors sometimes request copies of 4473s during audits, sometimes lately they use cell phones and take photos.

    With the current 4473 forms, the pertinent data is on pages 1 (applicant info and affadavit) and 3 (description of firearms). Because the multipage forms are known for self-destruction if opened more then once, the draft form makes sense IMO for two reasons:

    a) If the compliance agents get copies or take photos, they get the pertinent data on one page, yes, tying the firearm to the buyer. KEEP IN MIND that compliance audits and the opportunity to copy/photograph generally occur once in three years and sometimes once in six years if a particular FFL has a history of clean audits. Of course, compliance agents can show up at any time, as frequently as they want.

    b) Since the current form is weakly glued together, if most of the information can be captured on pages 1 ad 2 of the draft form (assuming the affadavit is on page 2 of the draft form), and if the instructions are on pages 3 and 4 and get detached, NBD, although in the eyes of many compliance agents, forms that become detached / separated is TEOTWAWKI.

    JMO,

    Noah
    I thought the Firearms owner protection act limited the amount of times ATF can make an inspection on a FFL holder/gun dealer

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
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    47
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    Default Re: 4473 changes proposed by ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleclaw View Post
    I thought the Firearms owner protection act limited the amount of times ATF can make an inspection on a FFL holder/gun dealer
    It did for regular inspections. However, it didn't limit "random" inspections, or inspections in the course of an investigation.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J.

    Don't end up in my signature!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Cranberry Twp, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
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    Default Re: 4473 changes proposed by ATF

    GOA has set up a form to email the ATF to tell them we're aware of the BS they're trying to pull and that it needs to stop.

    https://gunowners.org/na02152020/

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