Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Chippewa, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: *HYPOTHETICAL* Question about "intent" to manufacture a fully automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    To play devils advocate, what they (BATFE) would say to a judge is "Why else would someone own those parts if they were never going to build it into a fully automatic rifle?" And I hate to say it but today's liberal judges would probably agree. I would like to know what the defense lawyer would counter with on someone's behalf. I could see and I would hope that a judge would agree "These parts are legal to buy, legal to own and my client has not done anything illegal and has shown no propensity to do unlawful acts so why is the BATFE concerned?"
    Do we have any cases of that?
    Life has a melody.

  2. #12
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    Berks County, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: *HYPOTHETICAL* Question about "intent" to manufacture a fully automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    I own all of the parts except one (receiver with 3rd hole) that could be used to make my MCXs auto. I have no intent on making it that way.

    Good luck to them proving what's in my mind.



    Agreed. I don't even know what's in my mind most of the time.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: *HYPOTHETICAL* Question about "intent" to manufacture a fully automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    Do we have any cases of that?
    A far as I know, not yet. It is talked about a lot, probably more with having the parts for an SBR rather than a full auto, but I haven't heard of any prosecutions at this point in time. That said, I will ask on a forum that only FFL's can go on and see if anyone has heard of any.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Montco, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: *HYPOTHETICAL* Question about "intent" to manufacture a fully automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    A far as I know, not yet. It is talked about a lot, probably more with having the parts for an SBR rather than a full auto, but I haven't heard of any prosecutions at this point in time. That said, I will ask on a forum that only FFL's can go on and see if anyone has heard of any.
    In the Patrick Sweeney books, he talks about constructive possession a lot (and advises not to have full auto sears or hammers if no accompanying tax stamp is possessed), however I believe he also states that he has no knowledge of anybody ever being prosecuted for it. Those books are all pretty old by now, so who knows.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    Apollo, Pennsylvania
    (Armstrong County)
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    Default Re: *HYPOTHETICAL* Question about "intent" to manufacture a fully automatic

    I've never heard of an actual law case, so I honestly wouldn't know either. But I would imagine that would just become a secondary charge or added on to the list of reasons why your are in handcuffs to begin with.

    Friends and I have had similar conversations about a switch blade knife. Legal to own in PA, illegal to carry (short of the employment criteria)
    You get arrested for something like aggravated assault, or something else along the "oh shit i done screwed-up" lines and it becomes a "oh look he also has a switch blade on his person"...offensive weapon charge added too.

    So if you are going to make a "just add water" box of goodies, toss in some brass knuckles and a really nice Microtech for good measure.
    HGW, llc ~ Title 1 & NFA sales/manufacturing ~ Transfers - Title 1 $20 - NFA $50

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Middle of PA, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: *HYPOTHETICAL* Question about "intent" to manufacture a fully automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    I have pieces of pipe, various chemicals, and an array of electronic devices. Is that constructive possession of a bomb?
    And a ton of fertilizer.



    As for the question...I bet Joshua Prince could provide you with the answer.
    Psalms 73:26

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: *HYPOTHETICAL* Question about "intent" to manufacture a fully automatic

    All of the responses I got on the FFL forum were negative, they have not heard of any recent cases where constructive possession/intent were prosecuted. Here is what one of the FFL's said (and he is also a lawyer):

    "When it comes to federal prosecutions, it has been my experience that the “who” is more important than the “what”.

    Unlike state law enforcement where people are charged and prosecuted for almost every observed violation of the law, the feds enforce by deterrence. What that means is that they selectively prosecute people in order to get media attention and scare everyone else into line. This means they go after high net worth individuals, cops, military, politicians, etc. They may prosecute a teacher for kiddie porn because that is shocking while passing on the truck driver that had more (although for solid victim crimes these will usually get referred for state prosecution as laws often overlap).

    Additionally, xxxxx quite correctly mentioned them piling on charges which is incredibly common in the federal system. There are legions of cases in which there was insufficient or flimsy evidence in the matter which they were first investigating, but they want to nail the subject, so they dig into other aspects of their lives looking for prosecutable issues. Al Capone went to jail for tax evasion, for instance.

    This is why I am so incredibly careful and give conservative advice to my clients. The feds don’t f**k around at all once you are on their radar screen. It’s not uncommon for investigations to last for many years. Don’t attract attention and don’t have a lot of skeletons in your closet for them to find."
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

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