Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Shooting lead bullets?

    This stems as a question I had due to another thread where reloading non-jackted bullets was suggested, due to their bulk low cost.

    I have always heard that firing all lead bullets is a bad thing to do from a firearm like an AR15 and especially a Glock. Is it just a matter of reloading the all lead bullets to low speeds so that the lead build up is limited? How many rounds can I fire during a session before the lead build up is going to affect my shooting / damage the barrel?

    Any other info would be apreciated... Thank you all in advance!
    Never underestimate the stupidity of your fellow human. Always carry a weapon!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Shooting lead bullets?

    Speaking from only my personal experience. I am shooting a very low Power Factor round right now. I use Better Bullets lead rounds.

    I actually won't shoot a match with a clean gun. I seem to run into problems then. i've already shot about 1500 rounds and was at the point the gun was so dirty I was getting light primer strikes. I haven't notice any leading at all in the barrel. You will see it on the feed ramp.

    I've also ran matches and steel challenge with Semi-wad cutters, which they say glocks won't feed.

    So, I'd really say, try it and see. I know my friend who has a G21SF can't feed SWC at all. So results will vary for everyone, and also what type of FPS you are pushing through the barrel. I'm gonna be shooting major power factor soon, so I opted to just get an aftermarket barrel, just to be safer.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Shooting lead bullets?

    Keep your lead loads down around 900-1000 fps and get a lone wolf barrel to not run into issues with the Glock polygonal rifling.

    Wikipedia article...

    The manufacturer Glock advises against using lead bullets (meaning bullets not covered by a copper jacket) in their polygonally rifled barrels, which has led to a widespread belief that polygonal rifling is not compatible with lead bullets. Firearms expert and barrel maker, the late Gale McMillan, has also commented that lead bullets and polygonal rifling are not a good mix. Some have made a point of the fact that neither H&K nor Kahr explicitly recommend against lead bullets in their polygonal rifled barrels, and feel that it is probable that there is an additional factor involved in Glock's warning. However, Kahr's FAQ does include a warning that lead bullets can cause additional fouling[7] and recommends special attention to cleaning after using them. In addition, while H&K doesn't warn against the use of lead, at least one well-documented catastrophic incident in an H&K pistol[8] may be related to this issue. Furthermore, Dave Spaulding, well-known gun writer, reported in the February/March 2008 issue of Handguns Magazine that when he queried H&K about their polygonally rifled barrels that they commented: "It has been their experience that polygonal rifling will foul with lead at a greater rate than will conventional rifling."

    One suggestion of what the "additional factor involved in Glock's warning" might be is that Glock barrels have a fairly sharp transition between the chamber and the rifling, and this area is prone to lead buildup if lead bullets are used. This buildup may result in failures to fully return to battery, allowing the gun to fire with the case not fully supported by the chamber, leading to a potentially dangerous case failure. However, since this sharp transition is found on most autopistols this speculation is of limited value. The sharp transition or "lip" at the front of the chamber is required to "headspace" the cartridge in most autopistols.
    Another possible explanation is that there are different "species" of polygonal rifle and perhaps Glock's peculiar style of polygonal rifling may be more prone to leading than the particular styles employed in the H&K and Kahr barrels.

    Leading is the buildup of lead in the bore that happens in nearly all firearms firing high velocity lead bullets. This lead buildup must be cleaned out regularly, or the barrel will gradually become constricted resulting in higher than normal discharge pressures. In the extreme case, increased discharge pressures can result in a catastrophic incident.
    Hoplophobia is funny

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Shooting lead bullets?

    when i got my first glock back in 86 i did not about the so called lead issues with them. so in my ignorance i ran a couple of thousand rounds of lead round nose thru it with no troubles. i guess i kept it clean enough, btw it was damn accurate with the loads i was using. i think if you keep it clean enough and keep your velocities down you will have no problems. of course hardness of lead bullets vary between mfg. this could be a significant variable as well.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Shooting lead bullets?

    Glock: polygonal rifling that may no grip the bullet. The lead bullet then is striped going through the barrel and the barrel ends up severely leaded and pressure goes up due to barrel being smaller diameter.
    Solutions:
    1) Use a hard alloy of the appropriate diameter (run an oiled soft lead ball through the barrel and determine the max diameter (not sure I can call it a groove diameter since there are no grooves and lands). Use a bullet at least 0.001" larger
    2) Get an after market barrel with real rifling
    AR-15:
    The AR is gas operate and is direct impingement. As the hot gasses blow into the gas tube, they "could" take lead particles with them. This "could" build up and make cleaning hard and turn the rifle into a single shot.
    I wouldn't shoot lead bullets in a .22, no matter what. Too hard to cast good bullets and jacketed aren't THAT expansive if you look for bulk purchase.
    Lead bullets are not for the person who doesn't want to work up the load and learn what works in their gun.
    For these people, I recommend Montana Gold, Precision Delta, and Zero bullets. Much less than Hornady/Sieera and at least as good. Buy in BULK.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Shooting lead bullets?

    Quote Originally Posted by G23neverjams View Post
    I have always heard that firing all lead bullets is a bad thing to do from a firearm like an AR15
    i believe that the issue with the ar15 is that you can clog the gas port. i dont reload but i also believe that there are other issues with pushing lead bullet to very high velocities.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Shooting lead bullets?

    I can't comment about .223 although they seem a little hot and fast for lead.

    If you are worried about lead try a plated bullet. That is a lead bullet with a thinner copper coating. I have had really good luck with Berry's. Much cleaner and less smokey they lead and my indoor range allows them. They don't mess up your hands as much when you reload them either.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Shooting lead bullets?

    Thank you all greatly! My suspicions have been confirmed that it's the gas port in the AR's (and the like I'm sure) and that low speed and / or an aftermarket barrel for the Glock is best.

    The coper plated bullets kind of interest me but worry me as well due to the problem with the gas port, although disassembling the gas block / gas tube would take care of that between shootings, but would be more of a pain unless I replace the pins with threaded "pins" to ease disassembling....

    Generally though, besides the glock, it would seem that it's not worth the hassle for the AR's and the like, though probably not bad for the pistol with a different barrel.

    I would wonder however, that since indoor ranges don't allow .223, and most other rifles on the range due to the damage from the rounds fired, if they would allow the use of those weapons when firing subsonic all lead rounds? If so, when it's 20 degrees out and shooting for most of us, even the "diehards", consists of as many rounds as we can get off till we can't feel our fingers and then pack up and leave when all we fire is 70 rounds. If the ranges would allow the use of an AR15 due to the all lead round and firing subsonic rounds, maybe the extra cleaning would be worth it. Thoughts?
    Never underestimate the stupidity of your fellow human. Always carry a weapon!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Shooting lead bullets?

    In that situation it's 9mm upper time.

    "X is what percentage of Y?" Divide the first number by the second, multiply the answer by 100. Add a percent sign. Think.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Shooting lead bullets?

    "Is it just a matter of reloading the all lead bullets to low speeds so that the lead build up is limited?"


    See this discussed allot. Generally speaking now, but in my experience, and with advice from my betters, I've found bullet fit to be key. If leading is a problem the first piece of advice most casters would give you is to slug the barrel for measurement. Undersized cast bullets were my main problem with leading early on. Although different barrel types present with their own nuances many report success with proper work up. I mainly now shoot only lead in all my pistols and revolvers, with no problems. If interested http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ has a wealth of info. Good luck.
    It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.

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