Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: ATF has been deliberately misinterpreting a key gun control regulation

    If they change what is the "gun" or change the wording it will end up worse for us. With tons of registered machine guns becoming illegal, if a lower cant be a mg then neither can a rdias (auto sear) or trigger pack etc.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: ATF has been deliberately misinterpreting a key gun control regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    If they change what is the "gun" or change the wording it will end up worse for us. With tons of registered machine guns becoming illegal, if a lower cant be a mg then neither can a rdias (auto sear) or trigger pack etc.
    Most machine guns I am aware of meet the definition

    And no, it wouldnít get worse. Because a fully automatic weapon that separates like an ar pattern rifle....isnít regulated arm.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  3. #13
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    Default Re: ATF has been deliberately misinterpreting a key gun control regulation

    I can see this as something they try to bring back

    In the early days of gun control, every single part of a gun was subject to regulation under the Federal Firearms Act of 1938

  4. #14
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    Default Re: ATF has been deliberately misinterpreting a key gun control regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by PAMedic=F|A= View Post
    Most machine guns I am aware of meet the definition

    And no, it wouldn’t get worse. Because a fully automatic weapon that separates like an ar pattern rifle....isn’t regulated arm.
    There are bolts, trigger packs, sears, all registered as mg. None of those meet the definition of "receiver" . Things like ar15,fal,etc that have split receivers would probably end up requiring "marriage " to the other half and both be serialized. Changing how they define the registered part wont end up good for us.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: ATF has been deliberately misinterpreting a key gun control regulation

    Current weapon design (modular) would die on the vine. We would be back in the 1940's with complete receivers. Even the M17/M18 Sig pistols would need all the grip frames serial numbered to the sheet metal "receiver". Of course, the Gov would leave a loophole for them, but not us, to use "modular" weapons.

    This would destroy any new weapons designs. A feature or flaw of what they want? Would be akin to saying the internet is too powerful for free speech, you have to go back to mailing letters to each other.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: ATF has been deliberately misinterpreting a key gun control regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    There are bolts, trigger packs, sears, all registered as mg. None of those meet the definition of "receiver" . Things like ar15,fal,etc that have split receivers would probably end up requiring "marriage " to the other half and both be serialized. Changing how they define the registered part wont end up good for us.
    So we don’t change it. We keep it the way it is.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  7. #17
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    Default Re: ATF has been deliberately misinterpreting a key gun control regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by PAMedic=F|A= View Post
    So we don’t change it. We keep it the way it is.

    Great idea. Why don't we eliminate all forms of registration and disband the ATF while we're at it.
    (Pgh) GROUP SHOOT DATES: (April 18 Cancelled) - June 20 - August 15 - October 17 (link)

  8. #18
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    Default Re: ATF has been deliberately misinterpreting a key gun control regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    There are bolts, trigger packs, sears, all registered as mg. None of those meet the definition of "receiver" . Things like ar15,fal,etc that have split receivers would probably end up requiring "marriage " to the other half and both be serialized. Changing how they define the registered part wont end up good for us.
    Also, I believe GL addressed this issue in another thread.

    But it comes down to this. It doesn’t meet what the law says is a firearm. Legally it isn’t a firearm at all, regardless of being full auto or not, so it isn’t regulated at all.

    M2? Removable barrel. Not a firearm.

    Fully auto m16? Not a firearm.

    Just like a shockwave isn’t a sbs.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  9. #19
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    Default Re: ATF has been deliberately misinterpreting a key gun control regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    The defendant was handing completed rifles to people, that he built himself, without an FFL or SOT.

    Having customers push the CAM button using his program on his machine is not a defense.

    Charging them $25 to "join his club" is nonsense and legally irrelevant; it doesn't matter if he manufactures for the general public or club members or just his family, he's making guns for other people for money.

    The FAL also has 2 receiver parts. The M-60 GPMG has 4, including the trunion and rails. A Ruger Mark II has the working parts allocated between the upper and the frame. So does the 1911. And others.

    One solution to this is to deem any assembled receiver components as "the receiver", which would allow anyone to buy uppers and lowers through the mail, but once all the parts were together a prohibited person has committed a felony. Kind of like the M1 carbine conversion parts are a machinegun if you have all 7 parts.

    I honestly don't know how often tracing a gun has solved a crime. Most criminals are morons, but even they know enough not to leave guns behind that can be traced to them. Guns left at the scene probably trace back to the last guy who bought them legally, until his house was burglarized and then the trail is gone. Not sure how that's the key piece of evidence, that the gun used to kill M'orawn Jackson was stolen 5 years ago from some dude 100 miles away.

    This is what Iím basing my thoughts on.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: ATF has been deliberately misinterpreting a key gun control regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by PAMedic=F|A= View Post
    This is what I’m basing my thoughts on.
    Yea .... as long as you never use one outside of your sound proof indoor range and never tell anyone you have unregistered mg...... there are tons of "regulations" I dont agree with like every part of a suppressor is a suppressor, or constructive intent, but I'm not gonna run around with coat hanger auto sears and tell them they cant regulate them because it doesnt fit the definition of firearm. If you have the time and money to defend against that more power to you

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