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Thread: Steel case ammo

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Steel case ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    Is their any truth that steel cased ammo is harder on ejectors than brass cased ammo?
    Yes I broke an extractor on my Ar-10 after about 500 rounds of steel case. It's more dirty because steel doesn't expand like brass to seal the chamber. I had a case head rip off leaving the rest of the case in the chamber. It was stuck so bad I had to use a case extractor and I bent over a steel cleaning rod with a hammer. I finally got it out with a heat gun. I think the lacquer coating melted it into the chamber. I never used steel again.
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    Default Re: Steel case ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoder View Post
    Yes I broke an extractor on my Ar-10 after about 500 rounds of steel case. It's more dirty because steel doesn't expand like brass to seal the chamber. I had a case head rip off leaving the rest of the case in the chamber. It was stuck so bad I had to use a case extractor and I bent over a steel cleaning rod with a hammer. I finally got it out with a heat gun. I think the lacquer coating melted it into the chamber. I never used steel again.
    That's not the norm for the majority of people.

    It's more dirty because steel doesn't expand like brass to seal the chamber.
    This is correct.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Steel case ammo

    Here's some extremely in depth testing up to 10k rounds each of several steel cased ammo types vs federal in 223 out of AR-15 rifles of all the same model.

    I don't think your going to find any better documented information then this and if you clean your rifle between the 500 and 1000 round mark keep it lubed in the chamber you should be good to go regarding stuck cases.

    They go over every question talked about in this thread.

    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bra...ammo/#reliable

    What Effect Do Coatings Have On Steel Cased Ammo Performance?

    A common belief is that the lacquer coating of certain steel cased ammunition will “melt” in the chamber of a hot rifle and cause subsequent rounds to fail to extract. At one point, we might have believed that.

    But in this test, we saw three times as many failures to extract with the polymer coated Wolf brand ammo (15 extraction failures) than with the lacquer coated Brown Bear ammo (5 extraction failures). Although we fired the polymer coated Tula ammunition in different rifles, the rate of extraction failures in those rifles was lower than that of Wolf.


    There will be a very small number of stuck cases experienced when shooting steel cased ammunition, but we didn’t see a correlation between lacquer coatings and stuck cases.

    If anything would make that lacquer coating “melt,” it would be the treatment these rifles received during the test. We shot them until they were too hot to hold – hot enough that a chambered round would cook off in ten to fifteen seconds. We also tried leaving rounds chambered before temperatures reached that point. None of this harsh treatment caused extraction problems.

    We found no evidence to back up the claim that lacquer coatings melt in the chamber and cause extraction failures.
    Why Did The Barrels Wear The Way They Did?

    Certainly one of the most visually striking parts of this article is the inclusion of post-test barrel cutaways. We cut the barrels axially with an angle grinder and then longitudinally by the wire EDM process. This lets us see exactly how the barrels wore throughout the test. There were significant differences.

    The first answer to this question is, “Because we shot them until they got hot, and then we kept shooting them.”

    The rate of fire definitely contributed to rapid barrel wear. Still, other factors played a major role.
    Last edited by Hodgie; February 4th, 2020 at 04:42 PM.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Steel case ammo

    There's no question that steel causes more wear than brass. It's harder metal. I think my experience was extreme. It's not normal to break an extractor that quickly.
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    Default Re: Steel case ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunowner99 View Post
    Thinking AR500 at least 25 yards out hanging target that moves.
    I wouldn't shoot any steel target with steel core because of damage to the target. I have heard also the core could penetrate and the jacket bounce back so a minimum distance needs to be kept.
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    Default Re: Steel case ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunsnwater View Post
    I wouldn't shoot any steel target with steel core because of damage to the target. I have heard also the core could penetrate and the jacket bounce back so a minimum distance needs to be kept.
    Quality targets hold up and there’s no splash back if they are properly angled to send all fragments into the ground.

    https://www.challengetargets.com/product/SS-RM-80020-R.html

    Only 62 grain green tip gas left tiny divots in the above target for me at 30 yards.

    I’m only stating what I do and my results with my chosen equipment. I’ve never caught a fragment using my choice of steel. I’ve caught quite a few at local gun ranges shooting their bulk mild garbage steel with handgun standard brass cases FMJ rounds at 25 yards. I can shoot the above target at 7 yards with brown bear 9mm and catch the fragments on a tarp or bucket below.

    YMMV so do everything at your own risk and not based on my say so.
    Last edited by Hodgie; February 4th, 2020 at 05:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Steel case ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunowner99 View Post
    Then why does everyone say it is dirty?
    Anything is cheaper than brass. So when aluminum or steel is chosen for case materials cost is the main goal. Therefore powded is going to be chosen for the same reason. Clean powders cost a premium for being clean. They will be excluded unless circumstances conspire to make them cheaply available like an over run.

    Incidentally major producers will use what is available to produce ammo to spec. Sometimes mixing things that reloaders could never do due to lack of testing equipment. Thats one reason lot numbers are so important if your looking to buy in quantity.
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Steel case ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by Polish HG View Post
    Does anyone make steel case ammo that's not dirty

    Would like to shoot steel through my PA-10, but it being hard to clean I would prefer "clean" steel case if possible
    Depends upon the firearm.

    I've shot a fair amount of brass and steel in Makarov handguns. Silver bear seems to shoot somewhat dirtier than S&B or PPU brass cased rounds. I never bothered to gather up solvent residue patches cleaning up after both, to see which weighed more.

    Allegedly brass rounds obturate better than steel rounds. Maybe some gun writers had memory of the "blish effect". Also some talk of higher bolt thrust for this reason. I've seen no difference in FTF or FTE between the two classes of rounds.



    Lots of Americans use steel cased rounds in their rifles, especially AR platforms.

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    Default Re: Steel case ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunsnwater View Post
    I wouldn't shoot any steel target with steel core because of damage to the target. I have heard also the core could penetrate and the jacket bounce back so a minimum distance needs to be kept.
    I've been hit with ricochet from steel targets. Standard M193 ball. Penetrating wounds.

    Steel targets require careful situation.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Steel case ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunsnwater View Post
    I wouldn't shoot any steel target with steel core because of damage to the target. I have heard also the core could penetrate and the jacket bounce back so a minimum distance needs to be kept.
    This isn't exactly what we are talking about here but I had been shooting some MILD steel set up to swing at 100yds.
    7.62x54R mild steel core ammo was being used.
    The jackets were bouncing back all the way to the 100yd firing line , many would land on the roof over the shooting benches.
    Sometimes you could very faintly hear them coming in.
    They didn't land with enough force unless they hit you in the eyeball but that was pretty impressive that the jacket alone would travel 100yds and in such a straight line of flight considering the shape of the jacket

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