Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 31 to 37 of 37

Thread: Lower Milling

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Berks County, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    2,060
    Rep Power
    21197585

    Default Re: Lower Milling

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    There's nothing illegal about me meeting you somewhere and selling you a mill, and jig. Then you sell it and they sell it and they sell it and somehow I end up buying it back.....
    Along those lines then. I sell you a milling machine and charge you rent to keep it in a building I own since you don't have a location for it. You machine 'stuff.' Since we have a month to month rental agreement, you cancel after a month or two. Then I buy the machine back from you and we part ways.

    That should be no different than you owning a building that a firearm manufacturer rents from you. They machine 'stuff.' Just because you own the building does not make you a manufacturer, right? They own the equipment and do all the work.

    How would all that be viewed? Who will decide? A judge.

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeConnor View Post
    Yinz guys are going to ruin it for everybody
    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    That's funny right there.

    Has anyone else read that six page decision? I'd like to discuss what's in it and see what we come up with. One of the things that I think I saw was the issue that the finished product changes hands, or ownership gets 'transferred' without being registered. Am I alone on seeing this?
    I agree that's where you get into interpretation. Who decides if something has change hands? A judge.

    Not trying to start a war, but current law is current law. If some good ole boys do some 'illegal' stuff and nobody knows, there are no 'victims', and/or nobody seems to care, que será, será. If those boys publish about it on an Internet forum, it might get some attention. Who will decide the outcome? A judge.

    I'd be curious what Phil Kline and Josh Prince think.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Douglassville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    4,912
    Rep Power
    21474848

    Default Re: Lower Milling

    Yes, the burden of proof lies on the charging party.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Penn area, Pennsylvania
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,666
    Rep Power
    21474849

    Default Re: Lower Milling

    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
    Yes, the burden of proof lies on the charging party.
    Not according to Chuck , Nancy , Shifty Schiff , and the others.
    I don't speak English , I talk American!

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    3,198
    Rep Power
    21474849

    Default Re: Lower Milling

    Quote Originally Posted by esh21167 View Post
    Along those lines then. I sell you a milling machine and charge you rent to keep it in a building I own since you don't have a location for it. You machine 'stuff.' Since we have a month to month rental agreement, you cancel after a month or two. Then I buy the machine back from you and we part ways.

    That should be no different than you owning a building that a firearm manufacturer rents from you. They machine 'stuff.' Just because you own the building does not make you a manufacturer, right? They own the equipment and do all the work.

    How would all that be viewed? Who will decide? A judge.





    I agree that's where you get into interpretation. Who decides if something has change hands? A judge.

    Not trying to start a war, but current law is current law. If some good ole boys do some 'illegal' stuff and nobody knows, there are no 'victims', and/or nobody seems to care, que será, será. If those boys publish about it on an Internet forum, it might get some attention. Who will decide the outcome? A judge.

    I'd be curious what Phil Kline and Josh Prince think.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.
    We already know the law and have consulted with 2A lawyers so that we stay well within the law.

    No one in this forum is advocating skirting the law, but your constant theme is that we are.
    We aren't.

    A casual reading of your posts here and elsewhere would indicate that our milling plans involve payment.
    They don't.

    A casual reading of your posts would indicate that our plans involve people in the business of firearm manufacture.
    They don't.

    A casual reading of your posts would indicate that our plans involve programmed or unprogrammed CNC machines.
    They don't.

    You're constantly blurring the lines and I have been wondering why since your very first posts in both threads.
    I don't appreciate your casual insinuation of illegality or your prodding threads into deliberately suggestive themes.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Berks County, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    2,060
    Rep Power
    21197585

    Default Re: Lower Milling

    My replies are in red below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berncly View Post
    I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.
    We already know the law and have consulted with 2A lawyers so that we stay well within the law.

    I don't know who 'we' are, but if that's the case, that's good.

    No one in this forum is advocating skirting the law, but your constant theme is that we are.
    We aren't.

    A casual reading of your posts here and elsewhere would indicate that our milling plans involve payment.
    They don't.

    A casual reading of your posts would indicate that our plans involve people in the business of firearm manufacture.
    They don't.

    A casual reading of your posts would indicate that our plans involve programmed or unprogrammed CNC machines.
    They don't.

    Perhaps 'casual' is a good word choice. I never mentioned anyone here was using a CNC machine, nor did I mean to imply any of those other activities. I was merely speaking of possible, general hypothetical situations.

    You're constantly blurring the lines and I have been wondering why since your very first posts in both threads.
    I don't appreciate your casual insinuation of illegality or your prodding threads into deliberately suggestive themes.

    This was never my intention either. Just inquiring about how something might be perceived.
    If I have offended anyone, I apologize for that.

    By Berncly's post, is it true we can lay the issue to rest with this?

    Using someone else's equipment is OK, so long as it's not CNC.
    The owner of the lower does all the work
    There is no financial transactions between the lower owner and the machine owner. (And the machine owner is not a 'manufacturer', gunsmith, or FFL holder.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Douglassville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
    Posts
    4,912
    Rep Power
    21474848

    Default Re: Lower Milling

    Quote Originally Posted by esh21167 View Post
    My replies are in red below.



    If I have offended anyone, I apologize for that.

    By Berncly's post, is it true we can lay the issue to rest with this?

    Using someone else's equipment is OK, so long as it's not CNC.
    The owner of the lower does all the work
    There is no financial transactions between the lower owner and the machine owner. (And the machine owner is not a 'manufacturer', gunsmith, or FFL holder.
    ...for now and until yet another ‘interpretation’ gets handed down by the powers that be.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Where the amish roam, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Posts
    2,009
    Rep Power
    14008652

    Default Re: Lower Milling

    you could sell your 80% arms or 5d tactical jig to someone price being up to the seller ... they can take it home and decide they don't like it and if you were feeling gracious you could buy it back. Videos on youtube or the like generally outline in great detail how to use one of these jigs. IANAL and this is not legal advice your always taking a risk by trying to "interpret" the statements of the ATF to fit your narrative.

    Me I buy the equipment and there is a list here I posted giving you options for more cost effective jigs.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Similar Threads

  1. Milling 7075 aluminum 80%lower
    By 1st8th83 in forum Gunsmithing
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: January 29th, 2016, 06:48 PM
  2. AR milling jig
    By jbraun948 in forum Gunsmithing
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: March 10th, 2014, 03:32 AM
  3. Custom milling on my M&P Pro
    By garyaug in forum Pistols
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: August 28th, 2013, 09:42 PM
  4. 1 on 1 Training- Lower Bucks
    By rdel85 in forum Training, Tactics & Competition
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: November 26th, 2010, 06:23 PM
  5. Hk USC/ump milling
    By BIRTHMACHINE in forum General
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: December 10th, 2009, 09:18 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops