Introducing friends of friends to firearms

[WCMG]

...Now that we have friends of friends requesting the same thing, I’m concerned we are opening our selves to liability should any of these people run afoul of the law. Are we liable for providing “training” to them since we are not licensed instructors? Does our liability change if we start asking for monetary compensation from these people?

We aren’t trying to start a business, but if things progress to a range session it costs my wife and I money. We need a babysitter, pay range fees, ammo, etc. I would really appreciate a legal opinion on this or if anyone has a link to information on this topic.

If you want a legal opinion, contact an attorney, but here are my not-an-attorney thoughts:

You can get sued for pretty much anything now-a-days. The question really is, "Am I prepared to spend the money defending myself from lawsuits if someone I "instruct" injuries themselves or someone else because of the "training" I provided them?" Now, showing your friends, or friends of friends, your firearms isn't training, or taking your friends to the range to let them shoot your firearms is not instructing, but once you start taking money for this even for expenses, you may have crossed over the line to being an instructor, which is fine if you want to do that. The NRA sells Instructor Insurance for a reason, because stupid people do stupid shit after they leave your training.

If you aren't trying to start a business, then don't turn this into a monetary thing. Now this doesn't mean you can't tell your buddy, "Bring your own ammo" the next time you meet him at the range.

[esh21167]

Wait until friends of friends become friends. Until then, recommend a course. Then perhaps open up and share later.

[bigandy1966]

I have done this several times in the past, its really no biggie.
When discussing with your friends, ask them if the friend of friend(FOF) has had any troubles with the law, any PFAs, mental health issues or outstanding warrants. if so stop here
Tell them they have to pay range entrance fees and buy the ammo, or if its a SGL range how to get a permit to use the range, you can do this online.
Make it clear how the day will go, 1/2 hour on safety and operation of each type of firearm used, dry fire drill by you then each member of the party, then live fire by you then LF individually, what to do if theres a malfunction or jam (you will be the one clearing, have them put the FA down and step away from the shooting station and notify you of the malfunction) etc Details details details, Write a syllabus so no points are missed
Make it clear up front that this does not count as a formal instructed class as you are NOT a certified or paid instructor, you are doing it for the cause and to dispel all these myths spewing from lil mikey b's piehole
Then have the friends and FOF meet together at the range, not your home. Maybe Have the outline of the days activities written out. maybe have copies for the participants so they have a tangible reference for the future to remind them of safe firearm handling.
Have the 5 rules printed on this too
If you feel better about it have them sign a form saying that they are not prohibited persons from interacting with a firearm
Then if there are enough lanes open and they have demonstrated their proficiency in safe handling, stand back and act as a RO for your group.
I have had several groups of co workers do GUN day up at French creek, Me and other co workers that owned firearms and were familiar with guns were ROs and supplied the hardware and assisted with the familiarization of their particular firearm.
One of my favorite sessions was teaching some Irish Lads all about Freedom and the joys of owning and shooting EBRs, bolt rifles Pistols,revolvers and shooting table trap, these guys were full on STOKED after an 8 hour day at the range (and a little sunburnt)
Another was having a group of New Yawker distant relatives all shooting EBRs and hanguns, taking pics of each other shooting stuff to show all their liberal friends back in NYC
A few observations, There will be several malfunctions, FTEs from limp wristing the gun. stress keeping the wrist solid and a good 2 handed hold on pistols. I did the basic Isometric push pull isosceles stance.
If you have a .22 pistol, start with this, if its a single action pistol even better.
If you have a .22 conversion kit for an AR15 its easier to teach basic operation of the platform then swap out the kit for a Std BCG and go full power
Stress safety, Trigger D Muzzle d and remember to have fun. They may be terrible shots but the basics are safety first then if they like it, you can work on getting the shots on target
Keep the surplus ammo as a bonus for doing these activities if there is some

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Fuck that. As the above poster said, send them to a training facility.
NEVER show "friends of friends" your stash.

Do you want more members of FOAC? More people who vote for the 2nd amendment? Because if we block ourselves off, we loose. Every time we add someone to the list of people with a LTCF, it helps. Sheriff know how many of us there are, and I’m willing to bet it has come up in conversation with other elected officials.

To the OP:

Taking a couple hours to help walk someone through is a great idea. It is perhaps the single most important thing to protecting our gun rights. You can always direct them to this forum, as a resource for any questions to specific. Obviously you had a positive influence on your friends, or they would not have steered others your way. Everyone has a responsibility to help their community as they can, don’t you agree?

And when an issue comes up, like the gun rally, they’ll be more willing to attend with you, or call their senator or rep if you ask them to because you helped them, because they already trust your judgement. If you just send them to a training facility they’ll likely never go and we’ve lost them forever.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

So far we have been asked by people who are intimidated and too novice to even approach a range or training center. Most of these friends of friends are scared soccer moms.

So do you want to loose them to moms demand action?

Show them he basics. Talk holsters, and explain why purse carry is bad. Direct them to safe firearms storage (battery operated pistol safe) because kids get into everything.

[Emptymag]

^^^ Two good posts.

Everything else has been people making up extreme examples to back up reasons to NOT help get people interested in firearms.

"DON'T BRING STRANGERS TO YOUR HOME AND GIVE THEM THE COMBO TO YOUR SAFE AND ACCESS TO YOUR BANK ACCOUNT!!!"
NO SHIT, Sherlock.

This isn't rocket science.
Go to range. Shoot guns. Watch them smile.

[OwnTheRide]

I used to show the ropes to anyone who was interested. I don't, really, anymore, mostly because I have a lot less free time nowadays, and if I have the opportunity to go shoot, I need to work on my own skills.

I will say this - I opened a lot of eyes when I allowed someone to handle an unloaded pistol and informed them that, had they been in NY, they would have just committed a crime.

Most of these friends of friends are scared soccer moms.

This is my experience as well. I'd say about 95% of the people I've introduced to guns are female friends of my wife.

I would argue that this is a key demographic that we want to encourage to become pro-gun.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

I used to show the ropes to anyone who was interested. I don't, really, anymore, mostly because I have a lot less free time nowadays, and if I have the opportunity to go shoot, I need to work on my own skills.

I will say this - I opened a lot of eyes when I allowed someone to handle an unloaded pistol and informed them that, had they been in NY, they would have just committed a crime.


This is my experience as well. I'd say about 95% of the people I've introduced to guns are female friends of my wife.

I would argue that this is a key demographic that we want to encourage to become pro-gun.

The older I get the more I realize You can fix a lot of problems by watching the problems of others others :-)

[Kingkowboys]

I used to show the ropes to anyone who was interested. I don't, really, anymore, mostly because I have a lot less free time nowadays, and if I have the opportunity to go shoot, I need to work on my own skills.

I will say this - I opened a lot of eyes when I allowed someone to handle an unloaded pistol and informed them that, had they been in NY, they would have just committed a crime.


This is my experience as well. I'd say about 95% of the people I've introduced to guns are female friends of my wife.

I would argue that this is a key demographic that we want to encourage to become pro-gun.

This is our motivation for providing guidance in the first place. It’s moms mainly as well as families that are concerned about their families. My wife and I both want to provide as much guidance as we can, educate, and hopefully open peoples eyes when they go vote.

The OP is focused on any liability we assume when we provide guidance and whether there is a threshold the moment money becomes involved. We have already decided we want to provide the guidance as long as we are not putting our family at legal risk. We do not feel these situations present a physical threat or risk to our family.

[free]

Unless they are very close friends and you trust them unequivocally I would suggest that you direct them to the nearest training facility and let them take a course of their choosing

Yep.

Tell these people to buy whatever your carry piece and ammo to go with it, to show they are serious. If they do, take them to the range and shoot at targets. For a while. And a while more. Then let your judgement take it from there.

Otherwise, fuck’em. They’re not serious.