+P+ Ammo. I give up, what is it?

**Mtbkski** · March 7th, 2007, 05:18 PM

I am getting back into the shooting thing. I have seen ammo listed as +P+.

1) What the heck is this stuff?

2) How do I know if my pistol will handle it?

3) I heard that the +P+ ammo in 9mm makes it rate with a 45 acp. Is this true? This would make a 9 mm very good for self defense wouldn't it?

4) What are your thoughts on the +P+ ammo out there?

**Holleta** · March 7th, 2007, 05:33 PM

+P is hot ammo
+P+ is extra hot ammo
both are higher pressure loads

+P+ is not recommended in many firearms.
It will also beat you and your gun up more than is necessary.

In most circumstance you would be better off with quality standard 9mm or perhaps..... +P 9mm. Both offer plenty of stopping power with less recoil/control issues or possible flinching.

Accuracy and shot placement carry much more weight than an extra + sign or two IMO.

**Nate** · March 7th, 2007, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Holleta

+P is hot ammo
+P+ is extra hot ammo
both are higher pressure loads

+P+ is not recommended in many firearms.
It will also beat you and your gun up more than is necessary.

In most circumstance you would be better off with quality standard 9mm or perhaps..... +P 9mm. Both offer plenty of stopping power with less recoil/control issues or possible flinching.

Accuracy and shot placement carry much more weight than an extra + sign or two IMO.

Thanks that helps me out... I was about to ask the same question

**The Drew** · March 8th, 2007, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Nate

Thanks that helps me out... I was about to ask the same question

Be careful, +p is a SAAMI standard, where as +p+ or other designations like it are not. It can be dangerous in some circumstances and just a marketing tool in others...

+p is safe in any pistol that is rated for it. Most modern pistols have no problems with +p

**Nate** · March 8th, 2007, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by The Drew

Be careful, +p is a SAAMI standard, where as +p+ or other designations like it are not. It can be dangerous in some circumstances and just a marketing tool in others...

+p is safe in any pistol that is rated for it. Most modern pistols have no problems with +p

Thanks for the warning, I plan to stay away from the +p+ loads. Sounds like a good way to ruin my new gun.

I just bought 2 boxes of Cor-Bon 20 RD. 380+P 90GR. JHP ammo.

**Rule10b5** · March 8th, 2007, 04:07 PM

Just to expand on what The Drew said:

+p+ is a meaningless designation. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute ("SAAMI") sets pressure standards for most sorts of ammunition. Basically, they set up what is or is not an acceptable pressure designation for any given load.

A given load of 9mm ammo, for example, must have a pressure averaging no greater than 35,000 psi.

9mm +p must be no greater than 38,500 psi.

Anything over 38,500 psi for 9mm is not able to be graded and is, certainly, not SAAMI compliant.

There is no SAAMI +p+ grade for 9mm.

The flip side, of course, as The Drew mentioned, is that precisely because +p+ doesn't exist, anyone can call their ammo +p+ and SAAMI isn't going to say anything. Thus, you could market 25,000 psi at +p+ and it wouldn't be untrue, simply because the designation is meaningless.

Most companies, though, tend to use +p+ to mean "really hot." The two main sellers of +p+ 9mm ammunition are Remington and Winchester (and Federal to a lesser extent), who sell a couple of specialty loads to police or other law enforcement agencies that sign waivers. Any dealer stocking Remington or Winchester +p+ ammo is "technically" supposed to have executed an agreement that they'll only sell to law enforcement. The Federal stuff is easier to get, IMHO.

Anyway, this isn't widely true in practice -- most shops sign off, and then sell to anyone.

In any case, most modern guns are fine with +p+ from Winchester and Remington. Glock, HK (except the P7 series due to the gas piston), S&W, & Sig. guns made in the last 20 years can pretty much be run on a heavy diet of +p+ ammo without worry from Remington or Winchester. They'll wear out faster, but I've never seen a Kaboom! because of +p+ ammo in any of these guns. I've fired thousands of +p+ loads out of Glocks with no problems at all.

One last comment: NATO spec for 9mm is 42,000 psi. If someone is selling "NATO" 9mm, and it's in real NATO marked boxes, you can be fairly sure it is hot ammo. This is what is shot in the Beretta 92s issued to the US Army, I think. There have also been limited import runs of really really hot 9mm NATO marked "submachine gun only." The last will, definitely, damage most pistols.

EDIT TO ADD: Federal's +p+ 9mm 124 gr. Hydrashok load is completely lame. It is actually slower than Winchester's regular +p 124 gr. load. Waste of money.

**tommeisen** · August 13th, 2011, 05:43 AM

I recently purchased a new model by Ruger, a LC9 9mm. In the manual it states do not shoot too much of the P+ ammo. What is too much? Maybe hundred's? Or more!! I'll use the 124gr. P+ for home defence or when I carry. But not use it for target practice. Thank's to all that gave out the info. on what the P+ meant!