Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: "Sanctuary Counties" in PA.

    Quote Originally Posted by PA_Robert View Post
    I respect Kim and FOAC and will continue to support them (Gun Bash in March..hint hint wink wink)

    I respect Val and the GOA and will continue to support them. (Val... I need stickers)

    I can respect both sides and arguments about SASOs.

    But in the end of the differing opinions, I support SASOs. I don't think they are enacting local gun laws, thereby violating preemption. I also support SASO's because it is getting people involved around a single issue. Fudd's should support it along with a plethora of people who own firearms but are not very vocal/active/invested.

    It is so hard to get people involved. There's so much infighting and drama. Also, certain groups (III%ers, Militias, Citizen Response Units, etc) have negative optics but the people are motivated. But the "motivated" groups turn off the not so motivated.

    Here in NW PA we will be having monthly meetings. The first half is with the more "motivated" people and the second half will be for the single issue of the constitution and our rights..... for the less motivated.

    This is why I really like the single issue concept and SASO.


    When it's said and done, our goal should be to get people involved in some way and VOTE.
    This. We must find a way to put aside any differences and stand united. We must build a broad coalition to support the 2A. It must be a right for all people, defended by all people.

    The opposition is able to put aside its differences. If we cannot, then we will lose.

    Stand together. No compromise!
    I am not a lawyer.

  2. #22
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    Mar 2016
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    Mercer, Pennsylvania
    (Mercer County)
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    Default Re: "Sanctuary Counties" in PA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    Oh, I see. I honestly wasn't aware that there was a plan to make it a "legal thing" (ordinance) - I thought this was being played the same way the leftists play the game - by simply ignoring/defying the law.

    That does complicate things.
    It's one thing to say "I hear you and your unconstitutional law, and I reject it - I will not comply".
    It's sort of hypocritical to say "YOU can't make up your own laws, but we're going to do the same thing."

    Hmmm...


    Note that I have no idea just what level of "legal standing" an "ordinance" carries with it.
    This is way above my level of understanding.
    It is a strange situation in PA because the SASO says..we, the county, are making a law that says we don't acknowledge your new state or local law which violates the original state law (RTKBA shall not be questioned and preemption). And on top of that, the law enforcement hierarchy in PA is local and then PSP. The county sheriffs have no real teeth in law enforcement. So they wouldn't be the ones enforcing a potential confiscation law. The local and PSP would be executing confiscation orders and are not subject to county laws. State constables and county sheriffs are the only elected "law enforcement" but are not really law enforcement. ...local yokels and PSP are hired/paid jackboots and work for the executive offices which enforce local and state laws...

    It makes my brain hurt.

    It's a very fucked up legal situation..but I like the idea that SASOs get people involved. We might be wrong and pissing in the wind...but you will hear us!!!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: "Sanctuary Counties" in PA.

    Quote Originally Posted by PA_Robert View Post
    State constables and county sheriffs are the only elected "law enforcement" but are not really law enforcement. ...local yokels and PSP are hired/paid jackboots and work for the executive offices which enforce local and state laws...
    Yeah, as a constable I really can't imagine a case where I would be called on to enforce a new anti-gun law. While we can arrest if we see a felony being commited, the powers that be would much rather we didn't actually do so, and instead just call local police or the PSP and 'be a good witness' instead. So while I would be happy to not enforce obviously unconstitutional laws, I can't see where it would ever come up where I was asked to.

    Good luck!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    E-Town, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: "Sanctuary Counties" in PA.

    My question is who is going to fight this fight in the courts when it gets challenged? We all know the final arbitrator will be the courts. Who's got the Bloomsburg money to fight the challenge?

  5. #25
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    Sep 2008
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    Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
    (Northampton County)
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    Default Re: "Sanctuary Counties" in PA.

    Generally speaking, I'm quick to join the fight against unconstitutional laws and executive orders. I also love commandeering Leftist tactics like 'sanctuary cities' and turning them against the Left. But once I'm past the emotion on this issue, I have no choice but to oppose 2A sanctuary efforts in PA.

    I believe that our best defense, long term, is strengthening preemption. I can say from first hand experience in lobbying D's to support HB1066, they get ill when I bring it up. It's like splashing Holy Water on a demon. :-) They immediately go to "that means an outside organization like the NRA could sue". That tells me that they do not fear local organizations, probably because they know they will outlast them in terms of litigation costs.

    In any case, I'd prefer to see all of us, including GOA just stick to pushing HB1066. With Turzai leaving, if we win big in the House this fall, we would have a chance at a veto-proof majority vote.

  6. #26
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    Jan 2013
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    Berks County, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: "Sanctuary Counties" in PA.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    Gun rights activists across Pennsylvania are encouraging county and municipal leaders to adopt “Second Amendment Sanctuary” ordinances to prevent local governments from enforcing a broad range of gun restrictions.

    But the president of a prominent gun rights group in Pennsylvania is not on board.

    “I personally believe that these things are misguided,” said Kim Stolfer of Firearms Owners Against Crime, based in southwestern Pennsylvania. “And it flaunts the law.”









    https://papost.org/2020/01/24/why-th...vqQ204Cw_MoIe4
    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    Oh, I see. I honestly wasn't aware that there was a plan to make it a "legal thing" (ordinance) - I thought this was being played the same way the leftists play the game - by simply ignoring/defying the law.

    That does complicate things.
    It's one thing to say "I hear you and your unconstitutional law, and I reject it - I will not comply".
    It's sort of hypocritical to say "YOU can't make up your own laws, but we're going to do the same thing."


    Hmmm...


    Note that I have no idea just what level of "legal standing" an "ordinance" carries with it.
    This is way above my level of understanding.
    Valid point.

    Municipality ignores higher (federal) law (immigration): We yell 'Get the pitchforks and torches!'

    Municipality ignores higher (state) law (guns): We yell: 'We're doing the right thing!'

    Above my pay grade, but there seems to be a bit of hypocrisy there. I'm not saying I agree with any state level legislation furthering restrictions, bans, etc. but it is making up a local law the preempts a state law, just in the opposite philosophical/political direction. We have to abide by the same rules.

  7. #27
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    Jan 2020
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    Milford, Pennsylvania
    (Pike County)
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    Default Re: "Sanctuary Counties" in PA.

    The PA Second Amendment Sanctuary was started March 2019 in Pike County . The mission statement is “No County Manpower , Money , equipment , or facilities “ will be used to enforce any new state or federal laws within a county . If the state or feds want to enforce the laws they have to bring their own resources . We refuse to use our tax dollars to enforce new gun laws against ourselves !! For anybody out there saying we are violating ”Preemption Law “you are wrong . No where in the law says we can’t have a local law refusing to use our tax dollars.The preemption law says local or county can’t make laws regulating firearms , mags , or ammo which our ordinance doesn’t even touch . This ordinance will be the same for every county in PA so politicians stop lying to the people saying the ordinance will change gun laws from county to county and that we are violating the premption law. All Gun Groups need to work together to protect our rights and stop bashing what others are doing . This movement has lit a fire under people’s butt to do something before it’s to late .Please support your counties SASO ! We are Pike County Strong !!!
    Last edited by Bobrf250; January 26th, 2020 at 11:06 AM.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: "Sanctuary Counties" in PA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobrf250 View Post
    The PA Second Amendment Sanctuary was started March 2019 in Pike County . The mission statement is “No County Manpower , Money , equipment , or facilities “ will be used to enforce any new state or federal laws within a county . If the state or feds want to enforce the laws they have to bring their own resources . We refuse to use our tax dollars to enforce new gun laws against ourselves !! For anybody out there saying we are violating ”Preemption Law “you are wrong . No where in the law says we can’t have a local law refusing to use our tax dollars.The preemption law says local or county can’t make laws regulating firearms , mags , or ammo which our ordinance doesn’t even touch . This ordinance will be the same for every county in PA so politicians stop lying to the people saying the ordinance will change gun laws from county to county and that we are violating the premption law. All Gun Groups need to work together to protect our rights and stop bashing what others are doing . This movement has lit a fire under people’s butt to do something before it’s to late .Please support your counties SASO ! We are Pike County Strong !!!
    Wow. In your very first post, you blow in here and act like this Pike County version is well known to all and is the defacto, statewide standard. Then you accuse those of us who don't necessarily support SASO in PA of being wrong, and probably of being politicians. Then you call for unity?

    FYI, we are not bashing anyone. We are having what is called an adult conversation, in an attempt to sort out a very complex issue.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: "Sanctuary Counties" in PA.

    The use of a space in front of all punctuation looks familiar.
    It could just be a coincidence though.
    GROUP SHOOT was last SAT. You missed it. Watch for the NEXT one! (link)

  10. #30
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    Nov 2009
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    Mill Hall, Pennsylvania
    (Clinton County)
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    Default Re: "Sanctuary Counties" in PA.

    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    μολ ν λαβέ
    What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!

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