Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
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    18461, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
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    Default do i need to be present?

    hey guys.. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE!!!!

    yah its been a while since ive been on, but got a question...

    most of my select firearms have been in storage at a friend, who is also a C3, ive decided to sell my Talon 1911 to family and wanted to know if i need to be present

    we do not have a consignment agreement of sorts, i just left them there for safe keeping cause im coming and going from europe for a couple more years

    im really kinda hoping i can just send him there for the transfer

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania
    (Lehigh County)
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    Smile Re: do i need to be present?

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost183 View Post
    hey guys.. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE!!!!

    yah its been a while since ive been on, but got a question...

    most of my select firearms have been in storage at a friend, who is also a C3, ive decided to sell my Talon 1911 to family and wanted to know if i need to be present

    we do not have a consignment agreement of sorts, i just left them there for safe keeping cause im coming and going from europe for a couple more years

    im really kinda hoping i can just send him there for the transfer
    If by C3 you mean a FFL, have these been transferred to his books or are they just physically present and secure on his premises? If these are on his books, just send or text him a consignment agreement and he can take it from there. If these are not on his books, your signature is needed on the PSP transfer papers, so I do not know if there is an option for you to delegate that. This is assuming the family member is not a spouse, parent, or child, in which case different rules apply.

    Of course I am not a laywer or a FFL, so better advice may be forthcoming...
    Illegitimus non carborundum est

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    USN Retired, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: do i need to be present?

    C3?
    TriggerTime LLc 01/02 FFL CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst. BSA Rifle/Shotgun MB Counselor

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
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    18461, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
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    Default Re: do i need to be present?

    class 3 FFL,

    and no.. not in his books,, just secure in his possession, i didnt want to take the ride up there.. shoot!!!

    thanks for the reply brother..

    have a good year!!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dover, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: do i need to be present?

    Is temporary limited power of attorney an option? Works to buy cars and houses...
    Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    Richboro, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: do i need to be present?

    I believe if a firearm spends the night at an FFL it has to be entered on his book. Same for gunsmiths.

    You should call the FFL and ask him what to do. Even if we tell you otherwise it is his show.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: do i need to be present?

    Quote Originally Posted by gghbi View Post
    If by C3 you mean a FFL, have these been transferred to his books or are they just physically present and secure on his premises? If these are on his books, just send or text him a consignment agreement and he can take it from there. If these are not on his books, your signature is needed on the PSP transfer papers, so I do not know if there is an option for you to delegate that. This is assuming the family member is not a spouse, parent, or child, in which case different rules apply.

    Of course I am not a laywer or a FFL, so better advice may be forthcoming...
    I know the form has a box for seller signature, but I don't think it's absolutely required. I had an older friend who wanted to sell me a pistol, but was unable to travel to the dealer for medical reasons. He wrote and signed a letter, stating his intent to sell it to me. I brought the gun and letter to an FFL, and the transfer was done.
    Attention NRA Life and voting members - LPRGCFRANK running for NRA board of directors

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: do i need to be present?

    A 03 FFL, is a C&R license (Curio and Relic) and no he cannot transfer anything unless it is a C&R firearm going to another 03 FFL or any firearm going to another FFL who is licensed (except for a 03). A licensed collector has the same status under the GCA as a nonlicensee except for transactions in curio or relic firearms. [27 CFR 478.93] Also, A dealer’s license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics. [18 U.S.C. 922(a) and 923(a); 27 CFR 478.41(d)]

    The holder of the OP's firearms would have to have at least an 01 FFL to be able to transfer any of the firearms to a non licensee (the family member)

    As for the signature, The form can have the sellers info and in the signature block you can write "Not available for signature" (I have done this in the past with no repercussions from the PSP Firearms Unit) A letter of intent to sell would be a good document to show why there is no signature.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    OUT TO LUNCH
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    Default Re: do i need to be present?

    He said CLASS III dealer, not an 03 FFL holder.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    18461, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
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    Default Re: do i need to be present?

    sorry fellas... Class 3 SOT!!! force of habit typing ffl..

    my apologies for the confusion xringshooter

    he has done incoming transactions for me in the past when i bought out of state, and is also the one that helped figure out why i was having problems taking possession of an NFA S/F weapon some yrs ago..

    you might remember Xring?? you had shed some insight on the subject back then, i was passing the pics but couldnt take possession of the firearm.. they even sent me a letter after i requested it in writing that i was ok , turns out ATF had 2 owners, in 2 differant states on file for that weapon, and i was buying it from someone NOT on file!! the ATF wasnt being too forthcoming with info back then but we sorted it all out eventually and it was all due to chain of custody / ownership gaps starting with an FFL on GB in 2014, and ended with the selling FFL that i was buying it from in 2015 not following thru correctly, was a clusterf**k

    11 months later i got my money back in 2016!!

    anyway..

    back on topic, so if my cousin goes there with a notarized letter stating why i cant be there and he can take possession of the firearm after a pics check, im good to go?
    Last edited by ghost183; January 3rd, 2020 at 11:53 AM.

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