Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #51
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodgie View Post
    From who?
    From Polymer80.

    Update, I texted Sen. Bartolotta and she said she had just got off the phone with Judiciary Chair Baker where they discussed this issue. She said she’ll update me when they have some plan when they reconvene in Harrisburg.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyC View Post
    From Polymer80.

    Update, I texted Sen. Bartolotta and she said she had just got off the phone with Judiciary Chair Baker where they discussed this issue. She said she’ll update me when they have some plan when they reconvene in Harrisburg.
    That sucks but there are still other shipping options out there as of now

  3. #53
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    https://ar15safespace.com/?s=Polymer...t_type=product

    Many models/frame sizes to choose from.

    $98 + $5 shipping - G19 compact size is out of stock in black but other colors avail.
    Have to put in cart to see actual price!!!

  4. #54
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    Chester County, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Xringshooter View Post
    Just talked to my state senators office (Senate Majority Leader Corman), and my representatives office (Benninghoff) and another representatives office (Conklin) to fill them in and to pass my displeasure with the PA AG attempting to write PA law. All three aides asked me a lot of questions about 80% lowers and I explained that the BATFE didn't even consider these as firearms. Rep Benninghoffs aide even asked me what has to be done to actually turn it into a working piece (not just when the ATF says it is a "firearm") I explained the process to him. We also talked about how a person obtains an unfinished lower. I explained that probably very few gun dealers actually sell them because people can buy them on line much cheaper than through a FFL and because they are not classed as firearms by the ATF they can be shipped directing to the person placing the order. He asked "Then how would the PSP know and how/why would any paperwork need to be filled out?" Told him that is what the legislature needs to ask the AG. He agreed with me that he's probably doing it because he wants to be the next governor.
    The timing of this nonsense was obviously coordinated with Bloomberg's shit. An investigation needs to be started immediately to see if this ridiculously illegal action was a quid pro quo in return for Bloomberg money. This jackass needs to be Kaned. Very few reps have the balls to do this, and it needs to be the acid test in the upcoming primary.

    If not, he needs to be arrested and tried by a Constitutional Peoples' Tribunal. If they refuse to obey the laws and make up their own because they think they can, we can also do whatever is needed to restore the rule of constitutional law. I'm not advocating overthrowing a properly elected government I don't agree with, but they have to follow the rule of law according to the US and PA constitutions and laws legally enacted in accordance with them. If they won't do that, there are remedies. If the court system acts unlawfully and supports unconstitutional conduct, the final remedy is reserved for the people. They all need to be reminded of that and know we are thinking about it.
    Ya can't argue with figures. Two half nuthins is a whole nuthin.

  5. #55
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    Thumbs up Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripsafety View Post
    The timing of this nonsense was obviously coordinated with Bloomberg's shit. An investigation needs to be started immediately to see if this ridiculously illegal action was a quid pro quo in return for Bloomberg money. This jackass needs to be Kaned. Very few reps have the balls to do this, and it needs to be the acid test in the upcoming primary.

    If not, he needs to be arrested and tried by a Constitutional Peoples' Tribunal. If they refuse to obey the laws and make up their own because they think they can, we can also do whatever is needed to restore the rule of constitutional law. I'm not advocating overthrowing a properly elected government I don't agree with, but they have to follow the rule of law according to the US and PA constitutions and laws legally enacted in accordance with them. If they won't do that, there are remedies. If the court system acts unlawfully and supports unconstitutional conduct, the final remedy is reserved for the people. They all need to be reminded of that and know we are thinking about it.
    It is good to reread, or perhaps read for the first time, why we got here reposting from other forum .

    Congress, July 4, 1776.
    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
    For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
    For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
    For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
    For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
    He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
    In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
    Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
    We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
    Georgia
    Button Gwinnett
    Lyman Hall
    George Walton

    North Carolina
    William Hooper
    Joseph Hewes
    John Penn

    South Carolina
    Edward Rutledge
    Thomas Heyward, Jr.
    Thomas Lynch, Jr.
    Arthur Middleton

    Massachusetts
    John Hancock
    Maryland
    Samuel Chase
    William Paca
    Thomas Stone
    Charles Carroll of Carrollton

    Virginia
    George Wythe
    Richard Henry Lee
    Thomas Jefferson
    Benjamin Harrison
    Thomas Nelson, Jr.
    Francis Lightfoot Lee
    Carter Braxton

    Pennsylvania
    Robert Morris
    Benjamin Rush
    Benjamin Franklin
    John Morton
    George Clymer
    James Smith
    George Taylor
    James Wilson
    George Ross
    Delaware
    Caesar Rodney
    George Read
    Thomas McKean

    New York
    William Floyd
    Philip Livingston
    Francis Lewis
    Lewis Morris

    New Jersey
    Richard Stockton
    John Witherspoon
    Francis Hopkinson
    John Hart
    Abraham Clark

    New Hampshire
    Josiah Bartlett
    William Whipple

    Massachusetts

    Facing all the risk and peril of these fine men, I would sign it today if asked.
    God bless our Republic.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripsafety View Post
    The timing of this nonsense was obviously coordinated with Bloomberg's shit. An investigation needs to be started immediately to see if this ridiculously illegal action was a quid pro quo in return for Bloomberg money. This jackass needs to be Kaned. Very few reps have the balls to do this, and it needs to be the acid test in the upcoming primary.

    If not, he needs to be arrested and tried by a Constitutional Peoples' Tribunal. If they refuse to obey the laws and make up their own because they think they can, we can also do whatever is needed to restore the rule of constitutional law. I'm not advocating overthrowing a properly elected government I don't agree with, but they have to follow the rule of law according to the US and PA constitutions and laws legally enacted in accordance with them. If they won't do that, there are remedies. If the court system acts unlawfully and supports unconstitutional conduct, the final remedy is reserved for the people. They all need to be reminded of that and know we are thinking about it.
    I agree first VA now us it's a test to see how hard it's going to be too take over the red States even though we are pretty purple as of late. Too many coincidental actions at the same time. We need to stand as a community to prevent this gross distortion of our freedom.

  7. #57
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    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    So if a FFL simply ignores all this BS:

    1. How will anyone know?
    2. What's the repercussions? PSP doesn't actually issue the "Ls" that FFLs have, and there is no statute being broken to levy a prosecution.
    Attention NRA Life and voting members - LPRGCFRANK running for NRA board of directors

  8. #58
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    So if a FFL simply ignores all this BS:

    1. How will anyone know?
    2. What's the repercussions? PSP doesn't actually issue the "Ls" that FFLs have, and there is no statute being broken to levy a prosecution.
    The only thing the PSP could do is to ban the FFLs use of the PICS, thus disabling the FFLs ability to transfer ANY firearm. And no, the FFL could not use the NICS because it has already been negotiated that since PA uses PICS a PA FFL cannot use NICS except for doing BGC's on people picking up suppressors that are in trusts and that basically is not needed because of the 41F changes where all individuals, including all the people named in a trust get a BGC by the NFA Division/FBI when the Form 4 is submitted.

    The banning of FFLs from using PICS was the threat back in 2009 when the PSP tried to make us fill out a SP4-113 for AR lowers. It was consequently retracted 3 months later when the ATF spanked the PSPs butt telling them that AR lowers were not considered in the same group as handguns, SBR's, SBS's and firearms with an OAL of less than 26", etc. I still have that "Firearm Dealers Newsletter" that the PSP used to send to us.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  9. #59
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    Erie, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    If it hasn't been mentioned, distributors can limit where their merchandise can be shipped, based on state laws, or made up laws.

    This happens with hi-cap mags not being shipped to the shit-hole states.









    and Epstein didn't kill himsef.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    Cause white people are awesome. Happy now......LOL.

  10. #60
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    Bechtelsville, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    2. What's the repercussions? PSP doesn't actually issue the "Ls" that FFLs have, and there is no statute being broken to levy a prosecution.
    Beyond the criminal offenses? Have the licensee’s PA Firearms Sales License revoked
    Joshua Prince, Esq. - Firearms Industry Consulting Group - www.PaFirearmsLawyer.com

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