Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #191
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    bensalem, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Age
    30
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    179
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    55333

    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    my lgs got the forms w/out instructions . so there on the ball sort of .
    The forms are for if you buy from an ffl. Online isnt an ffl so no need for paperwork. I've been trying to see what is new on this but keep finding that it's just really unclear and no one has a definite answer. I had another midway order come in 1/21 so they still ship. So from what I gather it's still if your leagally aloud to own a firearm you can legally own a 80% unless it comes down to the cops "opinion" but an opinion isnt a law. Hopefully someone can comment back on what's going on.

  2. #192
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania
    (Erie County)
    Posts
    6,286
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    21474852

    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuff View Post
    The forms are for if you buy from an ffl. Online isnt an ffl so no need for paperwork. I've been trying to see what is new on this but keep finding that it's just really unclear and no one has a definite answer. I had another midway order come in 1/21 so they still ship. So from what I gather it's still if your leagally aloud to own a firearm you can legally own a 80% unless it comes down to the cops "opinion" but an opinion isnt a law. Hopefully someone can comment back on what's going on.
    Since it NOT legally a firearm, anyone can own it.

    In fact, give it to your kid to take to Show and Tell, so the other kids can see how cool his dad is, making his own firearms!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    Cause white people are awesome. Happy now......LOL.

  3. #193
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Bechtelsville, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    11139109

    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    While I am not going to go into everything that was said/argued yesterday during the hearing on the preliminary injunction, I was quite surprised when Judge Brobson asked the AG's Office (which is representing the PSP), what the PSP's position is on percentage of completion of a "frame or receiver" before it becomes a "frame or receiver" and they said they are taking a more broad interpretation than the AG's Opinion (after Brobson already called the AG's Opinion broad) and that the PSP now contends that everything from .000001 to 100% is a "frame or receiver." Brobson made clear during the hearing that he agreed with our one statutory argument that "designed to" and "may readily be converted to" only modify "weapon" not "frame or receiver."

    Perhaps the best part was during oral argument, after I had questioned Lt. Col. Scott Price of the PSP (who I genuinely like) and solicited testimony from him that he purchased a non-firearm object within the past several months and had it shipped to his house without going through an FFL. During oral argument, Judge Brobson pulled no punches and said to opposing counsel - You're telling me that this statutory text, as has existed since 1995, so clearly applies to these objects, but your own witness, a Lt Col of the PSP, testified that he didn't think the law required him to go through an FFL and obtained one of the objects without doing so? Opposing counsel's response is that they aren't applying it retroactively...let that one sink in for a bit..
    Joshua Prince, Esq. - Firearms Industry Consulting Group - www.PaFirearmsLawyer.com

  4. #194
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chippewa, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    21474850

    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by SigForLife View Post
    While I am not going to go into everything that was said/argued yesterday during the hearing on the preliminary injunction, I was quite surprised when Judge Brobson asked the AG's Office (which is representing the PSP), what the PSP's position is on percentage of completion of a "frame or receiver" before it becomes a "frame or receiver" and they said they are taking a more broad interpretation than the AG's Opinion (after Brobson already called the AG's Opinion broad) and that the PSP now contends that everything from .000001 to 100% is a "frame or receiver." Brobson made clear during the hearing that he agreed with our one statutory argument that "designed to" and "may readily be converted to" only modify "weapon" not "frame or receiver."

    Perhaps the best part was during oral argument, after I had questioned Lt. Col. Scott Price of the PSP (who I genuinely like) and solicited testimony from him that he purchased a non-firearm object within the past several months and had it shipped to his house without going through an FFL. During oral argument, Judge Brobson pulled no punches and said to opposing counsel - You're telling me that this statutory text, as has existed since 1995, so clearly applies to these objects, but your own witness, a Lt Col of the PSP, testified that he didn't think the law required him to go through an FFL and obtained one of the objects without doing so? Opposing counsel's response is that they aren't applying it retroactively...let that one sink in for a bit..
    Thanks for the update Mr. Prince!
    Life has a melody.

  5. #195
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Middle of PA, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6,313
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    21474848

    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by SigForLife View Post
    While I am not going to go into everything that was said/argued yesterday during the hearing on the preliminary injunction, I was quite surprised when Judge Brobson asked the AG's Office (which is representing the PSP), what the PSP's position is on percentage of completion of a "frame or receiver" before it becomes a "frame or receiver" and they said they are taking a more broad interpretation than the AG's Opinion (after Brobson already called the AG's Opinion broad) and that the PSP now contends that everything from .000001 to 100% is a "frame or receiver." Brobson made clear during the hearing that he agreed with our one statutory argument that "designed to" and "may readily be converted to" only modify "weapon" not "frame or receiver."

    Perhaps the best part was during oral argument, after I had questioned Lt. Col. Scott Price of the PSP (who I genuinely like) and solicited testimony from him that he purchased a non-firearm object within the past several months and had it shipped to his house without going through an FFL. During oral argument, Judge Brobson pulled no punches and said to opposing counsel - You're telling me that this statutory text, as has existed since 1995, so clearly applies to these objects, but your own witness, a Lt Col of the PSP, testified that he didn't think the law required him to go through an FFL and obtained one of the objects without doing so? Opposing counsel's response is that they aren't applying it retroactively...let that one sink in for a bit..
    Interesting updates and thanks for coming on to post.

    So am I reading that correctly that any % finished from raw material all the up to an 80% would be considered a finished receiver the way PSP is interpreting this opinion that's trying to pose as an enforceable law?
    Psalms 73:26

  6. #196
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    On top of a hill, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,451
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    21474851

    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    So a 2lb aluminum block is a unfinished lower receiver now? I guess they can make that determination by assuming that what it must be if you happen to own other firearms?

  7. #197
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Posts
    18,145
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    There's an aluminum recycling plant near me, that produces these.



    I expect PSP to be arresting every driver that leaves the plant with them for possession of an unregistered arsenal.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  8. #198
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Where the amish roam, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
    Posts
    1,953
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    There's an aluminum recycling plant near me, that produces these.



    I expect PSP to be arresting every driver that leaves the plant with them for possession of an unregistered arsenal.
    aluminum vagina's in block form?

  9. #199
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Pennsylvania
    (Lackawanna County)
    Posts
    237
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    14742988

    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    So the forest is actually full of gunstocks and railroad tracks are "unfinished receivers"? That means that anyplace that makes metal (in sizes big enough) is actually manufacturing "firearms??? Oh, and places that make polymers (that "could" be used in AR lowers) are also making firearms now?

    It's laughable, and sad, when politicians and officials come out with broad statements that cover way too much. Because they waddled their big ideas out, we now have a bigger, muddier mess to define. Simpler if the AG just came right out and admitted he "overspoke" on the topic and retracted everything. Bad enough all the time and $$$ spent on these silly forms the PSP now has, plus postage to ship them out. I wonder how much taxpayer money has already been wasted on this whole thing?

  10. #200
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Macungie, Pa, Pennsylvania
    (Lehigh County)
    Age
    56
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    1,197
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    Default Re: 80% Lower Update on PICS

    In addition to ar15safespace Midway USA is also shipping here at least as of last week since my poly pistol lower arrived yesterday from them. No idea if they've changed since last week.

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